Producers / labels; use of your tunes in mixes?

Talk to your hearts content.....but keep it sweet! No record sales, live events listings or ebay labba labba. Posts which break these rules will be deleted without warning and continued offences may result in a ban.

Moderator: cheyenne

Producers / labels; use of your tunes in mixes?

Postby BMC » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:33 am

Discussed a few times in the past I believe, but ok, once more for clearity. With the fast rising amount of downloadable mixes available on podcast-sites, I was wondering what the producer's / label's here (RMS, Choco, Russ, Dougie, DC etc) take on the use of their tunes in mixes is?

Speaking for my own mixes (I don't like the word podcast, since they're just mixes, nothing more), I never use full tunes. Around 1 - 1.5 minute with sound samples and low quality mixed together (no gaps); mainly hope to promote the music and think it does mainly that, cause I sometimes get complains that pieces of the tunes are too short and listeners wanna hear more. I've had positive responses from artists and labels in the past (some that were included in a mix). But I also seem to recall reading that some here don't like others to use their tunes in such mixes regardless, which ofcourse is understandable too, it's your music in the end, obviously.

What's your view on it?

:arrow:
Reggae mixes (old & new): http://bettermustcome.blogspot.com
Reggae footage (old & new): http://nl.youtube.com/profile?user=BetterMC
BMC
 
Posts: 3001
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: Netherlands

Postby Digiman » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:03 am

Generally I think what both producers and selectors works for the one purpose, helping each other, so mixes is a must to promoting reggae music and culture, and I would like to hear more mixes with reggae I love. And much more better if young listeners will be in hunting of good mixes than in hunting of illegal free mp3 releases.
Selections with lots of selector's effects over tunes is cool for me. Not very like short 1-minute tunes in mixes, because I love some "session feeling" and "story" in mixes, which lacks with very fast selection.

As I know Russ is ok for mixes, and he done a lots of killer mixes which I love to the max. As for other producers - I don't know, interesting their opinions too.
Digiman
 
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:46 pm
Location: Rostov-on-Don

Postby Chocolate Soldier » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:20 am

As per Friday Feb 22, 2008 my thoughts are:

mixtapes / podcasts whatever: generally good for promotion, word of mouth, presence on the radar screens

SELLING mixtapes, mixcdrs etc for $: crosses the line
Chocolate Soldier
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: Spaceship Earth

Postby Downpressor » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:50 am

I'm pretty mixed on this. On the one hand I like free promotion and feel flattered that someone chose my record out of hundreds of others, but so far I cant actually say that it leads to any increase in sales. I have seen kids not buy a record because they already have the songs in a mixtape/download/CD however.

The other aspect is that at least with radio play I'm supposed to get a royalty payment for use of my tunes. Not that this has happened to me but some guys I know get regular ASCAP/BMI checks so I know it does happen. With Internet stuff I'll never see a red penny/white Yen unless its part of a "legitimate" station's stream.

So far its a mixed bag, no real evidence of benefit and circumstantial evidence of loss. I'll definitely second what Choco said that sales of mixes is no good no how.
=========================
http://dubbing-in-tokyo.blogspot.com/
=========================
Downpressor
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Tokyo

Postby gravy » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:01 pm

what about session tapes rather than mixtapes (if that makes sense)?

is it mostly about the quality of the recording?


I was wondering about putting tunes on youtube as well....
gravy
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:04 am

Postby droid » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:03 pm

Downpressor wrote:I'm pretty mixed on this. On the one hand I like free promotion and feel flattered that someone chose my record out of hundreds of others, but so far I cant actually say that it leads to any increase in sales. I have seen kids not buy a record because they already have the songs in a mixtape/download/CD however.

The other aspect is that at least with radio play I'm supposed to get a royalty payment for use of my tunes. Not that this has happened to me but some guys I know get regular ASCAP/BMI checks so I know it does happen. With Internet stuff I'll never see a red penny/white Yen unless its part of a "legitimate" station's stream.

So far its a mixed bag, no real evidence of benefit and circumstantial evidence of loss. I'll definitely second what Choco said that sales of mixes is no good no how.


I'm loath to get into this again, as the last discussion here was full of talk about 'parasites' and 'piracy'.

Ive had contact with tons of people who ask me specifically where they can buy stuff that Ive put in mixes - Ive also had loads of inquiries from people who say that they've gotten interested in certain genres of music after hearing mixes - I think that qualifies as circumstantial evidence of the positive effects of mixes on sales.

I think its generally felt (in non-reggae circles), that as long as not too much of a track is played and its not CD quality, then mixes are in general a reasonably valuable form of promotion - especially when done by a big DJ or promoted on a big site.

They're also probably the number one way I hear new music which I then go and buy. In fact - I picked up some new on-drop stuff recently after listening to a BMC podcast!
Blog>>>>>>>>>> http://www.weareie.com
Label>>>>>>>>>> http://www.thefear.ie
droid
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:53 am

Postby BMC » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:46 pm

droid wrote:They're also probably the number one way I hear new music which I then go and buy. In fact - I picked up some new on-drop stuff recently after listening to a BMC podcast!


One of the reasons I said I think the 'promotional' thing of the mixes does work, droid. I regularly get messages from people telling they bought tunes based on a mix of mine and thanking me for providing enough info to track 'm down.

Ofcourse the people that don't buy a tune when they already have it in a mix wont email me that info, so it's hard to see how it averages out.
Reggae mixes (old & new): http://bettermustcome.blogspot.com
Reggae footage (old & new): http://nl.youtube.com/profile?user=BetterMC
BMC
 
Posts: 3001
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: Netherlands

Postby Inyaki » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:47 pm

Chocolate Soldier wrote:As per Friday Feb 22, 2008 my thoughts are:

mixtapes / podcasts whatever: generally good for promotion, word of mouth, presence on the radar screens

SELLING mixtapes, mixcdrs etc for $: crosses the line


It couldn't be said better in less words!
Inyaki
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:07 pm
Location: South London

Postby Reggaemusicstore » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:52 pm

I'd agree with choco too. To be honest from a listening point of view i really dislike the whole concept of mixes which in some though not all cases seems to be more about bigging up the DJ's mixing skills rather than the musical content and I really have no interest whatsoever in listening to reggae presented in that style. I'd rather hear a sound tape or a plain old tape of tunes coming one after the other with a few seconds gap between each.
Reggaemusicstore
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: London

Postby Rebel Corner » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:00 pm

might be kinda sad for all producers, shops and distributors , but it's true that selling session cd's and mix cd's is a traditional ja to uk to usa street hustle ..
as white mice said man and man just a 'try (ing) a thing'.

dont think it can or will be stopped, wouldn't know how you go about it either to be honest...hard enough to control internet music piracy/freeloading let alone street runnings.

the people these mix cd's are reaching are rarely people who buy vinyl/cd proper releases anyhow (as you prob know from sales figures for yours and others roots releases) .on the positive you're more likely to sell these customers a proper release or have them come and attend yours or your featured artists shows by exposing your product to them any which way.
even the exposure a producer get's from them could lead to others who do buy official releases hearing the product and then buying the connected legit releases.

if you go down any market/car boot in an area of london with even a small amount of west indian residents ( and i assume anywhere else in
the uk and beyond ) you see bootleg cd's of big name r&b, reggae and hip hop artists selling for as little as five cd's for a tenner ..
i've witnessed a severe dti raid with over a hundred dti and police officers involved at such a market....they caught nearly everyone selling bootlegs and punishment was dished out accordingly in the courts from what people told me.
.... due to ghetto economics , next week a few stalls were back at it and a month or so later it was back to the usual situation.

i feel the only way to counter the bootleg biz is for cd's to be drastically reduced in price which reflects there manufacturing cost if sadly not the production/recording costs.how can anyone expect poor people to pay ten quid plus for a cd when the bootleg product is so abundant and so cheap in comparison.also technology is a producers worst enemy as cd copying is an everday thing in all levels of society and effects computer games to music from the playground to the hood , to college campuses and the office.

almost need two types of release the 'high end' shop cd and the street corner cd... with proper covers and booklets for one and cheap ass plastic cover and photocopied cover for the other.

the same goes for vinyl lp's ...i remember well when they were £6.50 a pop down dougies dub shack way back in the nineties . you could pick up three lp's and be left with enough for a can of pop from a score(£20 note ).i used to buy loads of blackamix, dub jockey, conscious sounds lp's on top of pre 7"s and 12"s. as soon as lp's creeped up to a tenner in price i stopped buying them.....simple matter of economics , get eight 7"s for your £20 or two lp's , might not seem much of a jump in price but i know for me it curtailed my lp buying drastically.

as i sell records in brixton and talk/reason with alot of people who have been supporting reggae for years upon years by paying to go to dances/ concerts , buying records/ cd's etc .
i now feel that reggae is owned by those who love it, support it and cherish it in whatever way they do.
alot of them cant or wont pay full prices for cd's (i try and fail daily!) and so regardless of the morals , buy, swop and give away bootleg cd's ...sessions , mix tapes and bootleegged release cd's.

reggae and especially roots is sufferers music from the start and people deserve access to it regardless of economics and will get access to it whatever they can.producers and artist need paying for their works but the reality of peoples economic situation needds to be recognised and a mutually rewarding situation needs to be reached.

roots dances in the uk have dramatically reduced in vibes in reflection to the rising gate price... maybe just a coincidence but maybe as those sufferers at the 'hard times' end of society were priced out of attendance the people who maybe needed and appreciated the music and so would would show their appreciation accordingly.their vital 'catalystic' vibes were lost at the same time.
(this is even more so for concerts in the uk..£35 quid at icket before you pay for your lady's ticket or buy a drink)


the future prob lies in all independent producers selling as much as their own product direct to shops and customers (at a peoples price) via their web sites, ebay and merchandise stalls at thir live shows , bad news for distributors and shops but that's prob the best outlook for everyone in the musical food web/ chain from producers to customers .

also think people need to look to merchandising in a bigger way... look how much money rolling stones and similar big guns make from selling t-shirts, posters, programmes etc.check the financial figures, they dont lie ...the touring alone brings in far more than actual sales of the artists cd's.
people who actually buy legit releases and attend shows/ concerts like to own more than just the music itself and want a reminder of their night out.feel say that shaka has made a fair portion of money from selling t-shirts/ tapes and judging around the cult around his and other brand name sound systems / producers / labels many could do the same .
i can vision peeps in head to to jah shaka 'killer' range of clothing from branded caps to shoes.maybe this as easy as leading horses to water.

music game is changing everday and unless people play smart and change tactics the future is bleak for alot of shop's, producers , sound systems and labels making a living from it.especially so in such an underground scene/ niche market as roots and dub reggae.

i wish the roots scene moves onwards and forwards for everyones benefit ,but this should be done with a healthy dose of reality and understanding of the reggae market in it's fullness. and importantly in this time not any other time.car boot bootleggers are making more than the rest of us put together at the mo. time to get back to the war map/ drwawing board, change tactics and rally the troops or is gonna be a case of a normandy landing battle against insurmountable odds and realities.

ps.the rootical wildy coyote finally caught up with that seemingly impossible to catch and restrain road runner (a bootlegger/ downloader type character if i ever saw one) in that infamous last episode so there's hope yet!
"every day Blair & Bush scare me more, and more"
Rebel Corner
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:51 am
Location: devils armpit aka london

Postby droid » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:03 pm

Interesting post - but you're conflating mix CD's with bootlegs. though people do sell mix CD's - they're not the same thing.
Blog>>>>>>>>>> http://www.weareie.com
Label>>>>>>>>>> http://www.thefear.ie
droid
 
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:53 am

Postby Digiman » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:20 pm

mixes must be for free
Digiman
 
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:46 pm
Location: Rostov-on-Don

Postby BMC » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:27 pm

Digiman wrote:mixes must be for free


Yep, agreed, that's what I was referring to in the original question, free online downloadable mixes. Selling is indeed a no go imo.
Reggae mixes (old & new): http://bettermustcome.blogspot.com
Reggae footage (old & new): http://nl.youtube.com/profile?user=BetterMC
BMC
 
Posts: 3001
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:24 pm
Location: Netherlands

Postby Rebel Corner » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:53 pm

sorry if previous my rant seems like going off topic but from my perspective mix cd's / bootleg biz/ promotion of music/ future of the roots scene is connected like the ankle bone is connected to the knee bone and the knee to the thigh bone , and so , and so on.

hip hop, grime, drum and bass has survived by the use of mix tapes, spit tapes and with d n'b and garage/grime more so session cd's.any advertising is good advertising they say and i'm inclined to agree.just beacause involved parties ain't making the money they ideally would like to from the music game ,don't knock formats that have been proven to keep interest, hype, attendance for events and sadly, bottom of the chain record sales alive in so many other succsessfull underground scenes.

roots and dub is sadly not a successfull undergound music scene in the uk as ten people turning up to see king earthquake and another sound in walsall recently. and continuing poor sales of vinyl and cd releases proves.two monthly dances pulling up to a thousand people in a city of ten million does not denote succcess in my eyes.
i see and am glad that some of the bigger names/ veterans like vibronics, dougie concious, russ d , iration steppers etc. play all over europe but few play regular in the uk (positively more so recently) and also european roots crews are now seeing that all their support for uk peeps works has not got much exposure or works in the uk.can't be a one way street , it's not fair, right or correct.

maybe the problem is with the product, the stale way and corrupt way alot of the reggae biz continues to operate on a hustling tip and on an insular flex and lack of exposure or sadly universal/popular appeal of the current muisc coming out?????

personally would love to see some roots and culture 'spit' tapes come out(live mix cd's with mc's /singers doing their thing over but with studio quality rather than session quality).big up reality shock camp for their shockumentaries, closet thing i've seen to a spit tape in the roots scene.
also artists like deadly hunta have proved you can bust roots tunes and bust hip hop tunes and this is a more likely road to success than just staying in the seemingly, one way road , slow lane that roots is stuck in.


respect due to everyone involved in the roots and dub 'world a' music' for thir works but if this scenes gets any more undergound it will be dead and buried.

personally i've just retired for a bit from dj'ing/ sound runnings as rewards (vibes rewards rather than financial) are currerently not there to be had.that's after starting with my own crew and then with others help, building a regional roots scene in the far east of england over ten years plus. bringing a world of uk and young j.a. artists to peoples exposure and giving the artits/selectors a meal ticket and a much needed oppurtunity to flex live over a sound... mikes kinda quiet at many big dances espc. so when nuff artists in attendance.

we done this , playing / running things so whilst still staying true to thre livity and tradition of roots and rasta music i have played beats and styles of roots in all shapes that appeal to all types of people. also as dougie once advised in step forward mag,-for the survival of any music scene, we aimed for reaching out to a young audience who as they grow become the crowd and as i have personally witnessed , start their own sounds , productions, labels and become the musical torch carriers themselves.

nowadays i'm finding peep's musical attention span is too short, smoking bans means peeps are more likely to be pissed and it's alot harder to get peeps out for a night, modern culture means there alot of people on all sorts of chemicals , some younger heads show little love, respect or support for their musical elders. certain artist's diss long established up-right and ' financial just' runnings saying that the best money we can offer aint enough for a nights work when europeans who idolise them will pay them twice as much.then complain that there ain't no work in the uk or wonder why the scene is tired.

i don't want to bitter and sad about a scene and music i care and love about , but reality is just that and all of we roots people have to face that.


hope us all ina one can take the roots back to the roots.this scene needs some moulding!!!

ps.nice to see some life in this board on this and certain other 'sticky' topics if nowhere else... maybe it's self reflects the roots scene which seems to more about peoples wants lists and identification of such wants, shape , size and loudness of speakers, various ism's and skisms rather than anything else nowadays.nuff elements in roots but things seems 2D , spiritually flat and singled sense all over.
"every day Blair & Bush scare me more, and more"
Rebel Corner
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:51 am
Location: devils armpit aka london

Postby Downpressor » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:34 pm

BMC, droid,

I didnt say theres no positive effect, just that I have not seen it with my own eyes yet. All I can report on seeing is what happens here in Japan, half a world away from everyone else here. Even so its not like I'm ever going to go bust someone up for distributing mixes.

Rebel Corner

Plenty of stores sell mixes (and some I deal with directly) but in a way I cant hold it against them since they have to stay in business. If it comes down to me having to do the retail side of things besides when I DJ out or go to parties, I'll just give up on releasing 7"s. I work full time, got a wife I like to spend time with and what not. I've done "retail" on the web before and its really time consuming!
=========================
http://dubbing-in-tokyo.blogspot.com/
=========================
Downpressor
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Tokyo

Next

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PABLO ILIE and 5 guests