Joe Gibbs labels

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:30 pm

Agreed, the Ja pressings often sound better than the US pressings with the palm tree.
I like a lot of djs Gibbs recorded but sometimes he just seemed to take a vocal and a dj and splice them together whether or not they really fit.

Jb - if I've just received a record that came across the Atlantic or the US border that was graded Ex or VG+ based on looks and it sounds like crap I feel really pissed off - it costs a lot of money to get it to me. I don't see why it has to be a crap shoot. That's why I gravitate toward sellers who play grade the items and many of them have a set price. We all know the perils of Ja vinyl but it seems dishonest to pass it off to someone else knowing it's not good and then claiming it's all a matter of chance (I'm not suggesting you are doing that). Maybe I'm just being naive.

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby jb welda » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:18 pm

well mark the thing is, that's the way every copy of the record is, was and shall always be, all in the pressing run at least probably sound like that and we all know how JA vinyl can be especially in the heyday of reggae when coincidentally there was a real crisis in oil production and hence plastic ("vinyl") production and quality of records took a nose dive world wide but particularly in ja where it was never good to begin with. so I expect that as the baseline. my grading more or less reflects treatment of the record after purchase, otherwise probably the very best you will ever see out of ja is VG+, VG more common, and typically a good percentage of G right off the press. that's why "store stock" sums it up perfectly to me (I did not invent the term, I read it somewhere and it resonated as a true description to me). If a collector or whatever wants perfect records when they were imperfect by nature right from the press then he probably should not be buying JA records, but of course they (originals from JA) are what is "collectible" and so you have one of the main paradoxes of the collectors disease right there.

I had one fellow buy a 7", Frankie jones: mariguana for some ridiculous amount of money (to me anyway...I was shocked it brought 40+ dollars) and then contact me and want to return it because it had "pressing hiss" (I think was his term) all through it. I did let him and even refunded his return postage but the more I thought about it the less I liked it. that hiss is on every single copy ever made unless I miss my guess, the record was clean and not abused though it did have some typical JA anomalies (but no weed pressed into it) and as far as I was concerned I had described it accurately as "store stock". So I did refund his money plus, when I got the record back, but I also invited him to bid elsewhere because he was not going to be happy with what I had to offer and I wasn't going to guarantee records pressing quality when they were from a known problem area...I don't want to run a lending library over here.

For UK records i have completely different standards in most cases and will be much more likely to note a crappy pressing versus only subsequent damage to the record when advertising it.

I fully overstand how Daddy Kools must have felt and how he got such a rep as an ornery bastad having to deal with such a picky audience (not to mention those who want to hear every tune in the shop and then don't buy anything at all)...but unfortunately that's the audience you do have to deal with to sell records.

but understand I am relatively new to the selling game and don't plan on making a career of it so I am possibly invoking totally different standards than the rest of the world. I have always been a bit out of it.

edit to add: now all that blather above does NOT mean that I will knowingly pass on a record that is obviously defective to the point that one cannot play it. for instance, if it jumps, or is warpy enough to have the stylus "catch air" over the humps, if it is off center to the point of sounding hysterical (or even a little), I will at least mention it and in most cases I will not even bother to try and sell it. and in this category I also include records that came like that to me from their stock, eg: I bought the new record at a store in that condition, got it home, and as you put it mark, was pissed off that I had bought this record because it was defective. but by then it was generally too late to do anything about it unless I happened to have bought it at my local reggae record shop (there never was one "local" to me). in other words I am not nearly as harsh about it as I sound above.

one love
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Peter Dalton » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:13 pm

jb welda: "his DJ chanters were uniformly poor". If you consider Big Youth, I-Roy, Trinity, Dillinger, Ranking Joe, Prince Mohammed, Nigger Kojak, Lady Ann and Prince Far I "poor", you must have very high standards when it comes to DJs!
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby jb welda » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:22 pm

I was mostly thinking of trinity, prince mohammed and lady ann in this case and yes I think they ruined the respective 12"s they were on and yes I do have pretty high standards for DJ chanters...in fact most I dislike especially when they go on and on with what sounds like lyrics made up on the spot. if the songs continued with a dub version after the vocal and the DJ was exiled to the B side I personally think a lot of those records would sound a lot better.

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:37 pm

jb - I've never sold stuff but I imagine it can be tricky. Having bought since the 70's I'm also very aware of Ja pressing standards and I'm satisfied with what would probably only be a VG in other genres. I wouldn't necessarily assume that all records from a pressing are defective in the same way - maybe it could vary from batch to batch.

Daddy Kools reputation had little to do with the picky audience, though as I have stated before I personally never fell foul of his moods.

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby marmalade » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:38 pm

I always include a soundfile at 320kbps with my listings - no room for misunderstanding then :wink:
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby nickfa » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:22 pm

jb welda wrote:I was mostly thinking of trinity, prince mohammed and lady ann in this case and yes I think they ruined the respective 12"s they were on and yes I do have pretty high standards for DJ chanters...in fact most I dislike especially when they go on and on with what sounds like lyrics made up on the spot. if the songs continued with a dub version after the vocal and the DJ was exiled to the B side I personally think a lot of those records would sound a lot better.

one love
jb

I have always liked Joe Gibbs stuff but when it comes to DJ's on the 12" i can see where you are coming from Prince mohammed even welton irie and Trinity
seemed to get a bit boring especially if the record was mediocre in the first place The 7" DJ pieces tend to be a lot better as the record had to stand in it's own right
Their are of course exceptions i always loved Dennis browns ain't that loving you followed by Nigger Kojak and lisa's hole in bucket pure crap but great crap.
prince Mohammed's 40 leg dread was another thought out Dj piece but the subject was little to do with culture's zion gate.
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:37 am

Trinity's toast after Ruddy Thomas' Loving Pauper is great! That's on the Errol T 12".

I've read that the red palm tree label id pressed in Miami, but what about the Joe Gibbs label from the states that is the split blue/red label with the yellow line down the middle. Anyone know where they were pressed, they usually seem to be pretty good.

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby nickfa » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:29 am

Mark T wrote:Trinity's toast after Ruddy Thomas' Loving Pauper is great! That's on the Errol T 12".

I've read that the red palm tree label id pressed in Miami, but what about the Joe Gibbs label from the states that is the split blue/red label with the yellow line down the middle. Anyone know where they were pressed, they usually seem to be pretty good.

Mark T

I have a few of them and yes they all seem to be good and the culture /I roy 12" 's are on that label if my memory serves me well and they are all great tracks.
My favourite Joe Gibbs 12" is possibly Dennis Browns man next door/ 3 meals a day no dj's but great dubs.
Perhaps on refection the best 12" format is vocal and dub on a side and dj on b side.
talking of the culture/I roy 12"'s i have calling rasta fari / i roy river jordan which for some seems to be rather rare
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:17 pm

I think it must be really rare Nick. There is a comp called Culture and the Deejays at Joe Gibbs which has the two I Roy contributions and I wondered if they even existed as actual 12" but I have seen some and read your evidence - not often seen though. I was wondering how many of the tracks on that comp actually came as 12" originally. I put happy faces next to the ones I have and sad faces next to the ones I'll probably never own - but I have only seen the others as 7". Anyone else know differently?
Mark T

1 Two Sevens Clash/Prophecy Reveal ---- Culture & Bo Jangles
2 I'm Not Ashamed ---- Culture & I-Roy :(
3 Jah Jah See Dem A Come/Moss Mi Moss ---- Culture & Prince Weedy
4 Natty Dread Taking Over ---- Culture & I-Roy :(
5 Baldhead Bridge ---- Culture & Ranking Joe :D
6 Jah Love/Selassie I Cup ---- Culture & Bo Jangles
7 Zion Gate/Forty Leg Dread ---- Culture & Prince Mohammed :D
8 This Train/Righteous Train ---- Culture & Nicodemus :D
9 Send Some Rain ---- Culture & Clint Eastwood :D
10 Burning & Illusion (This Time)/Same Knife ---- Culture & Prince Far I
11 Innocent Blood/Rock It Up ---- Culture & U Brown
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby nickfa » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:01 am

Mark T wrote:I think it must be really rare Nick. There is a comp called Culture and the Deejays at Joe Gibbs which has the two I Roy contributions and I wondered if they even existed as actual 12" but I have seen some and read your evidence - not often seen though. I was wondering how many of the tracks on that comp actually came as 12" originally. I put happy faces next to the ones I have and sad faces next to the ones I'll probably never own - but I have only seen the others as 7". Anyone else know differently?
Mark T

1 Two Sevens Clash/Prophecy Reveal ---- Culture & Bo Jangles
2 I'm Not Ashamed ---- Culture & I-Roy :(
3 Jah Jah See Dem A Come/Moss Mi Moss ---- Culture & Prince Weedy
4 Natty Dread Taking Over ---- Culture & I-Roy :(
5 Baldhead Bridge ---- Culture & Ranking Joe :D
6 Jah Love/Selassie I Cup ---- Culture & Bo Jangles
7 Zion Gate/Forty Leg Dread ---- Culture & Prince Mohammed :D
8 This Train/Righteous Train ---- Culture & Nicodemus :D
9 Send Some Rain ---- Culture & Clint Eastwood :D
10 Burning & Illusion (This Time)/Same Knife ---- Culture & Prince Far I
11 Innocent Blood/Rock It Up ---- Culture & U Brown


1 Two Sevens Clash/Prophecy Reveal ---- Culture & Bo Jangles 6 Jah Love/Selassie I Cup ---- Culture & Bo Jangles and 10 Burning & Illusion (This Time)/Same Knife ---- Culture & Prince Far I were all made up for vp release all on 7". all the others i have on 12"
THe calling rasta for i seems to be very rare as it was not included on the vp comps or their culture boxset.
out of interest most are on the jg label you described baldhead bridge and zion gate on errol t and send some rain i have on a ja joe gibbs.
Vp done a 12" re release of zion gate a few years back which has a rather nice horns mix dub as per the baldhead bridge version of zion gate.
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby minidub » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:31 pm

along with a couple of 12" singles you both have, I've also got the culture/I roy "i'm not ashamed"; it's listed as from 1980 and is on the joe gibbs label with the split blue & red label with the yellow down the middle. the culture/u brown "innocent blood" I have is listed as 1981 and has the palm trees label.

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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:16 pm

Thanks guys. All of mine are Errol T except This Train which is on Ja Joe Gibbs.
I have some hunting to do.
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby Mark T » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:46 pm

Nick, is the Culture/Prince Weedy See Them A Come 12" one of the reissue discs or is it an original?
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Re: Joe Gibbs labels

Postby nickfa » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:10 pm

Yes Mark an original on the orange yellow blue
Yeah forgot about disco train yes mine is on ja joe gibbs
Youll find they turn up like london buses
Dont see one for ages then 3 will turn up at once
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