DKR new releases - Jan. 2013

[RB]

OMG please let's not start this again

[KingSimeonSound]

Hehe, yep, lets not.

I don't want re-open a discussion had before.. but James: its not a simple as that...

There are so many variables...

In the heat of a session (more regular in days gone by) one selector announces his sound and his tune, lifting the crowd, tuning up to sound sweet through the set... crowd bubbles and a some shouts go out in appreciation.....

So does it matter what is drawn by the next sound, any good tune will do will it..? The crowd will just like it anyway..? In an ideal world, and in truth, of course it should be a good tune... but which tune... and what context..

There is a lot more to it than just music in general; a whole heap of history in the music/culture will tell you so.

[Brimstone]

It is nice to see some reissues surface, however, there is currently a lot of talk regarding the recent surge in represses.
A few points overheard were -
"That it is ticking off a lot of people who feel there are some labels who seem to be in it more for the money and not for the love"
"A lot of 'hard to find' tunes are being devalued once repressed, regardless of how well it has been re-manufactured"
"Sound systems and some selectors were known for playing certain exclusive tunes, and the followers would attend the dances for these specific reasons - and would still like to do so"
There was even talk of 'shutting down' certain labels , whatever that is supposed to mean??
As much as i am not against it i do feel perturbed by the whole thing. The music should be promoting unity and not disharmony!

[waterhouserock]

exactly brimstone
.seems to me rb is only concerned about 1 thing...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..with his little "im doing it for the artist and the music" fukry.
should we be good little consumers and only speak in praise whilst you kill sound sytem culture with your imitations rb?
did you think you could come into this, feeding of the internet and cash in with no one saying anything? not on a small scale but every big tune u can get your vampire hands on and dubplate that was run by coxsone/shaka etc.. things thats been circlin ebay from bootleggers. coxsone and shaka prob got no idea.
your quick to point the bootleggers that step onto the toes of your capatalist venture.
whats the point of sound clash when everyone has the tunes on repress etc.
if its the music thats important issue it on cd and pay the artists whatever probably pitance you pay them, that theyre so grateful for.
are you that much better than roots international because the artists get a little food money? who are you in reggae music to take the lions share?
strikes me if you gonna press plastic (an oil based polluting product) in this digital age at least give us something that has not been available before.
I know all the teenagers and johnny no marks gonna complain at me coz there glad to discover all the big tunes for cheap and they aint ever gonna be satisfied with the thousands of repress allready out there until theres nuthin left to press.
if jazbo, trevor byfield etc wants to release their things so be it..but what your doing looks more like vampire buissness than a service to reggae.
sound system has always been about exclusivity, but these people think they have a right to disregard decades of tradition and culture to a free for all feeding frenzy on every big tune they can..without satisfying with the luxury of having so much already available when there 30 or so years too late.
selector hide your things!!!

[RB]

sorry couldn't read that post, too busy over here in the vault at the DKR Towers

[waterhouserock]

haha yeah yeah...you may joke to cover yourself but this is a serious matter so lets do some basic maths...
cost of pressing approx 1000 7"s - £600 approx
value once sold at £6 each - £6000
throw artist £50 in ja.( wha??? a likkle food money fe dat ol tune, yeah man, me never know man still check fe dem ol tune deh!)
profit £5350 per title (minus distrubution costs and percentage to shops )
multiply by 6 titles a month....£32100 (minus distrubution costs and percentage to shops )
if distrubution and and percentage is as much as 50% thats still £15k a month
or another way £180k per year.
not bad for never producing a tune and running a charity for poverty struck artists.
would buy a mansion and a duck on skis no prob.

[RB]

that math is wrong, but it's going to take me a while to give you the right figures. for starters, i have to count what it's in my closet



and then move on to the bigger rooms, bank accounts, private vaults, mattresses, inside the walls, various stash houses, swiss accounts, cayman accounts, etc.

[waterhouserock]

a real joker eh.
I bet trevor byfields closet dont look like that.
that was a quick rough maths..but in correct ball park,,a quick online search would confirm..
http://www.dubvendor.co.uk/invaders---h ... 2624-p.asp
http://www.jtsstudio.co.uk/pages/manufacture.htm
nuthin wrong running with a good buisness but come straight n maybe give us some more new/unreleased stuff instead of checkin the internet to see what the big tunes are and mass producing as many as you can under the pretence of a service to music and artists. that way everyones happy...

[RB]

stop insulting everyone's intelligence by pretending like you think i am collecting the GBP retail price of every record sold by a store who isn't me.
we wholesale records in USD, i could do the real math, except its none of your business.
or you could talk to any producer we've worked with, except they would laugh in your face when you started out by telling them that their music should not be released.
same old boring argument, same old boring you. i've tried to have polite, intelligent discourse with you about our differing viewpoints of this, but you're not interested in that, only in spewing the same old boring hyperbolic vitrol which i can only assume you hope you can fool some board members into believing.
no point in carrying on. i was going to post a funny cartoon of a walking dollar bill, that says "money talks, haters walk", but it was too big for the board. oh well.

[Brimstone]

"whats the point of sound clash when everyone has the tunes on repress etc."

Waterhouse, you more than buttress the point, me lion!!!
It kind of reminds me of the era when their was a 'cutting of specials' frenzy. The exclusivity has gone out of it because the world and their mother can get a custom sound system dubplate.
Back in the day certain tunes could only be played by a few and out of respect other sounds would not play certain tunes (if they had it) because it just would not have the same effect. For example, Jah Shaka was known for playing Kunta Kinte and Coxsone was known for playing Voice Of The Poor, Jah Love was known for playing the 12 Tribes/Albert Malawi tunes etc etc. I think that idea was good, as selectors/sound systems were forced to form their own identities and not copy or be lazy.
Once upon a time when certain tunes were released on plastic, i remember the interest used to fade fast.
It is almost as if the original pressing of certain rare tunes has become like those dubplates and the repress is the thing that has come to destroy the exclusivity.
To Digikiller, i will say that it is wise to listen even if one disagrees. We as the customers are the buyers and there is nothing like people power, and believe me when i say that mightier have fallen. It would be foolish to show such arrogance and be big headed. If i am not mistaken Digikiller and Deeper Knowledge is run by you Robert?
So why not show us that you can really go deep and also pull some wicked unreleased stuff from the vault, like some of the other labels have done? The people are asking, so hear their cry!!
In addition, i would like to say that Prince Jazzbo can always be found sitting around by Tuff Gong studios "looking a change" and i can say that because i see him there all the while. My people could have got those tunes long ago but left them because i and i know their history from whence they came, and did not want to commit any type of sacrilege.

[waterhouserock]

RB,im not insulting everyone.. im addressing you and explaining why....please dont act fool, i stated clearly you obviously do not take the full retail price as there is obviously distribution and shop fees.obviously you deal in $$..i dont want to get into some tactful argument in linguistics,currency and silly pictures..the facts are there for all to see ,,why dont you stop comin with the false reasoning and put up them figures? i know people who produce and release music (for much longer than youve been around) and also some guys that have been involved in repressing old tune, ..so maybe you should stop insulting everyones intellegence and state that you intend to cash in on every big tune that came before you as can and without mercy or regard. repress has always been around but not on this level and not from disconnected parties. people didnt mind.people mind what you are doing...not just me alone.same boring argument? to some maybe who are glad for the feeding frenzy but also a crucial argument to many.im trying to put forward a point which you sometimes take part in politley if it suits ,but more time its joker buissness and trying to fool us of your real motives.i have no interest in fooling people unlike yourself so come straight.i was previously positive about this set of releases.. i dont wish to continue this same old argument, some people aint interested, but whilst you continue to cash in with no regard there is a argument to be answered..it is you that doesnt want to reason, you just want to keep making money. this reasoning whether "polite" or not is of little consiquence to someone like yourself as you will continue regardless.

your previous posts about a service to artists and music i dont buy.the reason you and the bootleggers cross over titles is not some coincidence, theres unknown amounts of music from ja,its because your interested in learning and targetting all the big tunes one after another because you know they will sell. i think its wrong. i think its bad for a lot of the established reggae world and in the end will kill interest in revival.theres a lot of obscure music without feeding of whats going on with collectors and selectors who work hard to get them tune and bring them to the public, who support the sound/dance for that very reason. i support some of your releases but others are a blatant cashing in. some are obviously dubplates from uk sounds that shouldnt have been passed around. back off the tunes and let the artists and producers deal with it.
anyway, im wasting my time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gj42R698Ok

[waterhouserock]

rspx brimstone,plenty man not happy with whats goin on but they dont deal with internet so im glad you speak up... i can tell you right now, things have changed, certain tune man is scared to draw in UK..coz once the hype starts a repress is inevitable. no one remembers who run it first in a dance...no one will follow you sound for a tune thats been repressed...but everyone glad to cash in or grab a cheap repress copy.certain dubplates have been taken out of mans box behind their back and passed around too, only to surface on ebay, get passed around internet then get repressed. We did a dance with lloydie coxsone, he draw some of his "exclusives" revival dubs... i dont think the man had any idea whats been going on with his things.coxsone was known for that conquering lion piece.him alone run it. one piece. the sir harry piece was not known really. i would guess rb picked up my old copy that someone relisted recently on ebay as the next piece amd discovered it that way,.
like you say brimstone, many of us been dealing with music along time and could have cashed in but have to much respect for the music..unforetunately, all the info gained over years experience is now available online bringing in a next set of people into the buissness who have little respect for the culture of sound system or for where the knowledge they capatalise on comes from.If anyone should reissue them it should be the artists and producers themselves but i doubt they are even aware how hard man look for certain tune from back then.

[RB]

ok, tedious reply no. 57575858 -

we have issued many unreleased tunes. we will continue to issue them as long as i keep finding good ones i like and that i think others will like.

i started a label/imprint/whatever to put out records that i like and that were not available, and that i know other people wanted too. simple as that. not much more to it. added bonus, i get to meet artists & producers who's music i admire. also, we both make some money (shocking, i know).

i've already said my piece about sound system culture and my thoughts on its relevance, function and purpose both THEN AND NOW, in a previous futile attempt to have an intelligent discourse. not going to bore everyone with that argument again. suffice to say, some people like "waterhouserock" place this culture above and beyond everything else (including the intentions and wishes of those who made the music) and feel that what we do is an affront to said culture. i don't feel that way, so we disagree. oh well.

this is not a charity, it's a business. as long as i am happy, and the folks who's music we are releasing are happy, and records sell, and that enables us to put out more records, we'll continue. if doing that means that a couple dudes come on the internet every other month and level the same boring argument laced with fictional libelous nonsense, i can live with that. in the end, i want producers and artists and record buyers to like me, not internet pundits.

in summation, MORE BIG TUNES COMING FOREVER. HOLD TIGHT ALL SUPPORTERS

all records have shipped, check for them in European shops by next week (god willing, lord knows the US mail is a fkry sometimes)

[waterhouserock]

"we have issued many unreleased tune"...

yeah respect for those unknown pieces that you came across whilst hunting the big releases...not so sure about releasing the tunes coxsone and shaka made famous in UK and were known to play as exclusive and should not have got out.
like i said, no problem making some money but dont hide behind this helping the artist thing.
i say let the music get repressed again if the producers and artists see fit. whos fooling who? rb, says its the intention of the artist to release this musc.i seriously doubt they have any such intention and probably mostly unaware of demand for certain old tunes..what happens is rb go to the artist wanting to make some money from artists big tune and artist s say yes glad for some change..
these tunes were made for sound system.its a shame you think sound systems and 40years history is irrelevant. convenient tho. some producers kept back rhthms for their own sounds systems.
so in summation, RBvulture going to be cashing in regardless of what anyone says.of course he is. hold tight all insatiable repress lovers.
"couple dudes come on the internet every other month and level the same boring argument laced with fictional libelous nonsense"...your not payin attention.. it aint just me....a lot of people are not happy with you particularily...they just dont come to website chatsites.
alongside an affront to an long established culture it is a repeated and sytematic exploitation imo diguised under a thin veil of a service to music and artists.nuff time wasted..

[Brimstone]

Robert,
Why do you label the replies as tedious?
This must tell you something if you have been inundated with questions and queries!
I can definitely say that this matter runs much further than amongst "a few" internet pundits. There a lot of people in the streets who back what Waterhouse is saying, and I MEAN A LOT!
Anyway, why single him out? Has Waterhouse touched a nerve? What about the other pundits whose 'tedious' replies you have had to answer to?
Remember when the Japanese were blazing down the place with the high priced reissues? Well, a lot of stockists have stopped buying their products due to this.
Certain territories in Europe like e.g. France are not buying like they used to. Therefore, you may be riding the crest today but in a few years time DKR could be virtually non existent like Makasound or RAS records, for whatever reason. Almost every producer has a batch of unreleased - any fool knows that. Am quite sure you would unearth some gems whilst on the treasure hunt!
The streets are watching, the streets are talking so please listen.