reggae pre-amp wanted.

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Postby rez » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:14 pm

thanks for the response Russ.... was using JTS as an example of the type of gear of course I meant such devices in general. Again with the use of the word "commercial" it was purely a figure of speech to describe brands like DBX, BSS and the god awful Beringher you refer to... it was in no way intended as a slight to the masterfull Jah Tubby's Systems!!

I hear where your coming from alright... making a sound sound good is not an easy task. That said I figure if you run a sound you pretty much have to learn yourself sound engineering... even with a custom built pre-amp...

But in terms of live use I can see where it would be usefull. We use a dbx x-over on our sound and I dub the bass / mid-highs in or out on occasion using this... although to be honest not terribly often. Alot of DJ mixers these days tend to have good cutoff filters so often it can be left down to the selector.

Thanks for the response anyway... again I wasn't trying to slag off this kind of kit at all just wanted to get some feedback on why people prefered them to more generic sound gear.

out of interest on say a JTS pre-amp is everything analog? Or is it DSP? And anyone got any idea what the x-over frequencies and slopes are on one?
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Postby russ d » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:29 pm

yo rez, wasn`t taking it as a slight on jts gear, just nuff times his equipment seems to be regarded as something away from those name brand manufacturers, and in regards to amps for instance i`d say his outclassed fairly much all but the most expensive of the name brand big power amps, and considering he would`nt have anything even like a small fraction of the r&d money they spend on thiers, nor anything like the price they charge for thiers, then i think his equipment should be seen as some of the most competetive on the market...

jts equipment is all analogue, no dsp inside...crossover freq`s he do`nt give out, tho i`m sure an experienced engineer with oscilloscope or whatever could work it out...

in regards to dj mixers yeah i think there`s probably some decent ones out there with nuff capabilties...i once used an a&h x-zone, the big daddy of em, and really like the filters on that, selectable push switches for bass / mid and tops, with control for low pass filter i think, maybe even reversable for hipass...was fun to play with anyways...but also some ££££`s !!
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Postby mskeete » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:31 am

the other thing people don't seem to notice that is although you can get comercial x-overs, eq and parametrics you'd find it hard to wire them up in the same way as it's done inside a preamp
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Postby rez » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:56 am

mskeete wrote:the other thing people don't seem to notice that is although you can get comercial x-overs, eq and parametrics you'd find it hard to wire them up in the same way as it's done inside a preamp


how so??? there are only a small number of combinations of how to wire these devices together...
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Postby Jugz » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:38 am

I went to a dance in SCC the other week. 2 sounds: WSP and Ras Moffet. Robert was using a 3-way JTS and Moffet was using mostec's pre, both were playing CDs. WSP did sound cleaner & heavier, but I was told this was not down to the pre-amp but something to do with how far the power amps were set.

I would like to find out what x-over points Tubbys uses on his pre's.
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Postby mskeete » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:50 am

well if you did something like

mixer-->eq-->crossover-->amps

then how would you connect the mic so that it's not effeted by the eq for the music

how would you connect an effect unit so that the return signal only plays through the mids and tops (if that's what you want)

how would you arrange for kill switches. The 'kills' on most mixers just don't sound the same IHMO and if you killed the bass for example from the mixer then you still hear something (lowish level) coming out of the bass speakers

Where would you connect a bass parametric (or any type). Put it before the crossover and you'll run the risk of running out of headroom sooner ghan you otherwise would and you might hear it affecting the mids. Put it between the crossover and the amps and you'll hear it affacting the mic

It's not impossible to do but I Think you'll need at least two mixers, it will take up more space and take longer to wire up.
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Postby rez » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:30 pm

mskeete wrote:well if you did something like

mixer-->eq-->crossover-->amps

then how would you connect the mic so that it's not effeted by the eq for the music


never knew people would want to do this... I certainly don't.

how would you connect an effect unit so that the return signal only plays through the mids and tops (if that's what you want)


again never realised people would want that....

how would you arrange for kill switches. The 'kills' on most mixers just don't sound the same IHMO and if you killed the bass for example from the mixer then you still hear something (lowish level) coming out of the bass speakers


Some mixers (like the a&h russ mentions) have excellent kill switches/bandpass filters these days. On our system I just do it from the crossover (although it is a rotary dial) or indeed mute the amps from the laptop but that's a whole other story!

Where would you connect a bass parametric (or any type). Put it before the crossover and you'll run the risk of running out of headroom sooner ghan you otherwise would and you might hear it affecting the mids. Put it between the crossover and the amps and you'll hear it affacting the mic

Well I'd never use a parametric to the level I ran out of headroom... again any parametric I'd run I'd be wanting to affect the mic... it's gonna affect all the vocal records I play so why not the live vocals??

It's not impossible to do but I Think you'll need at least two mixers, it will take up more space and take longer to wire up.


True indeed it would be a curse to set up like this. Personally I know on our sound we'd never want it set like this so it hasn't come up.... but yeah if these are features you want it'd be hard to beat a dedicated piece of kit.

ites.
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Postby vibesmaster » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:00 pm

rez wrote:
mskeete wrote:well if you did something like

mixer-->eq-->crossover-->amps

then how would you connect the mic so that it's not effeted by the eq for the music


never knew people would want to do this... I certainly don't.

if theres a few diff mic men or women they are bound to have different frquencies in their vocals to the record being played so easy on a pre amp next mc comes in listen by ear an tune the voice in so its hearable same level as last mc

how would you connect an effect unit so that the return signal only plays through the mids and tops (if that's what you want)


again never realised people would want that....


i really wouldnt like to hear the bass going through an echo really would give a muffled effect if the bass was playing from a record aswell

how would you arrange for kill switches. The 'kills' on most mixers just don't sound the same IHMO and if you killed the bass for example from the mixer then you still hear something (lowish level) coming out of the bass speakers


Some mixers (like the a&h russ mentions) have excellent kill switches/bandpass filters these days. On our system I just do it from the crossover (although it is a rotary dial) or indeed mute the amps from the laptop but that's a whole other story!

Where would you connect a bass parametric (or any type). Put it before the crossover and you'll run the risk of running out of headroom sooner ghan you otherwise would and you might hear it affecting the mids. Put it between the crossover and the amps and you'll hear it affacting the mic

Well I'd never use a parametric to the level I ran out of headroom... again any parametric I'd run I'd be wanting to affect the mic... it's gonna affect all the vocal records I play so why not the live vocals??

It's not impossible to do but I Think you'll need at least two mixers, it will take up more space and take longer to wire up.


True indeed it would be a curse to set up like this. Personally I know on our sound we'd never want it set like this so it hasn't come up.... but yeah if these are features you want it'd be hard to beat a dedicated piece of kit.

ites.


i think i would get bored at a session where they played like a stereo not mixing up in the tune messing with frequencies bringing the bass in at the right drop , for me a pre amp is all part of the sound it just dont cut it without :?
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Postby Chocolate Soldier » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:17 pm

Didn't Shaka himself cut highs & lows by tweaking the crossover?
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Postby freedubtribe soundsystem » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:11 pm

mskeete wrote:well if you did something like

mixer-->eq-->crossover-->amps

then how would you connect the mic so that it's not effeted by the eq for the music

how would you connect an effect unit so that the return signal only plays through the mids and tops (if that's what you want)

how would you arrange for kill switches. The 'kills' on most mixers just don't sound the same IHMO and if you killed the bass for example from the mixer then you still hear something (lowish level) coming out of the bass speakers

Where would you connect a bass parametric (or any type). Put it before the crossover and you'll run the risk of running out of headroom sooner ghan you otherwise would and you might hear it affecting the mids. Put it between the crossover and the amps and you'll hear it affacting the mic

It's not impossible to do but I Think you'll need at least two mixers, it will take up more space and take longer to wire up.



GOOD POINTS HERE
THATS WHAT I'M DOING RIGHT NOW...

TURNTABLE-)PHONO PREAMP-)EQUALIZER-)CROSSOVER THAT SPLITS EVERYTHING IN 3, THEN THESE 3 GOING IN THE MAIN MIXER: 1 CHANNEL BASS, 1 MIDS, 1 HIGHS....IN THE MIXER THERE'S 1 CH. FOR THE MIC. FROM THE MIXER I GO IN ANOTHER CROSSOVER, THEN AMPS, THEN SPEAKERS....

OF COURSE IT TAKES A WHILE TO WIRE EVERYTHING UP (WELL 5 TO 10 MINUTES SO NOT AN HOUR), I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF THIS IS THE SAME WORK AS USING 1 STANDARD JTS OR MOSTEC PREAMP...

RESPECT
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Postby freedubtribe soundsystem » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:20 pm

1 CHANNEL BASS, 1 MIDS, 1 HIGHS....


every channel has mute button so i kill the frequency, and for the effects theres aux/send thing...

price is
phono pre= 27 pounds (used)
crest equalizer= 128 pounds (new)
jbl crossover = 68 pounds (used)
behringer mixer = 108 pounds (new)
and a lot of cables :evil:
other crossover (bss) = bought with the p.a. but its like 200 pounds on a website...


530 pounds-----almost like a pre....so my advice is

for dub-roots sounds buy the pre, but if u have to play also other stuff, the other gear is more useful (cant think of using the preamp to help my friends band when they play out)
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Postby russ d » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:30 pm

i used a sound system with pre-amp for a band once, also used my own sound years back for iration steppas live show (live mix, denis rootical on bass etc), of course the bands mics, lines etc had to go into a standard mixing desk first, which was balanced by another engineer, i just tuned up the pre-amp around that... there`s no possibilty of stereo placement (if thats used for live bands !) but worked fine otherwise... iration was happy that for once he could drop some proper heavy bass in the mix... do`nt think this concept is new !
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Postby freedubtribe soundsystem » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:56 pm

russ d wrote:i used a sound system with pre-amp for a band once, also used my own sound years back for iration steppas live show (live mix, denis rootical on bass etc), of course the bands mics, lines etc had to go into a standard mixing desk first, which was balanced by another engineer, i just tuned up the pre-amp around that... there`s no possibilty of stereo placement (if thats used for live bands !) but worked fine otherwise... iration was happy that for once he could drop some proper heavy bass in the mix... do`nt think this concept is new !




question...how can u play with a preamp on a stereo p.a., something like
2 lows powered by stereo amp, 2 mid/highs powered with a stereo amp?...
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Postby Vinnie » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:17 pm

just use line in and line out then
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Postby rutabowa » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:04 pm

not many PAs are stereo are they?
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