Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Talk to your hearts content.....but keep it sweet! No record sales, live events listings or ebay labba labba.

Moderator: B&F Moderator

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby jb welda » Tue May 29, 2018 10:57 pm

well, first of all, like has been mentioned here, most of the "vocal" tracks, or at least many of them, do not correspond to the dub versions, that's strike one. Strike two would be that the ones that DO match the dub versions, are very easy to find elsewhere and not really worth going out of your way for especially when you probably already have most of them on original release. And strike three would be the seeming inability to master a bass note on their records...all you got to do is listen to the Auralux version of the dubs to be smacked upside the head with the difference. Added bonus: that Al Campbell track, or is it really Al Campbell, and what the heck is that all about, obviously no one took the time to listen to this before releasing it.

VP: miles behind in reggae music.

I would offer you my two sets (four LPs) for the cost of postage, but you can probably find them cheaper elsewhere and if you hold on a bit i am sure these sets will find their way to their rightful place in the discount bin soon, especially the CDs...the vinyl may hold some intrinsic value just from the medium if not for the content.

So i say ditch this crap and invest in some good Vivian Jones (Ethiopian Kings vocal and dub) or something like Blackman Time or that Tape Rolling set on pressure sounds. Those have some quality for your money. And some actual dynamic range.

one love
jb
jb welda
 
Posts: 5143
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: caliweedonya

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby kalcidis » Wed May 30, 2018 7:33 am

Thanks for the explanation, Jah B. I suspected as much regarding the sound quality. I used to have the Auralux-releases and was very happy with them but did sell them when I found the original issues. Will probably keep away from them.

I agree with the Vivian Jones recommendation. I also really enjoy his album called Deeper Roots (or something similar). Will check out Blackman Time which I don't think I know what release it might be.
Image
User avatar
kalcidis
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:47 am
Location: sweden/stockholm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby guillaumebougard » Wed May 30, 2018 9:33 am

kalcidis wrote:Why crap? The sound quality is lacking? Or is it something else? Been thinking of picking up these myself for the vocal sets (as I already have the dub albums).


1. treating Scientist like they do is crap. However nasty the person Hopeton Brown is, his work commands utmost respect. Obviously, VP and GS don't want to pay him money for his work. Mind you, what would have to be paid would not cost anything: they would just carve those from payments to master owners (if any). He was listed as an artist on the covers and should get compensated. Period, argument done.

2. creating fake vocals (see the post mentioning the Al Campbell "song"), thereby cheating customers.

3. cheapo mastering and inconsistent (to say the least) pressing quality
_______________________________________________________________________
Guillaume Bougard
guillaume.bougard@gmail.com
http://www.tabou1records.wordpress.com
https://www.facebook.com/slyandrobbieofficial
guillaumebougard
 
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:28 pm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby kalcidis » Wed May 30, 2018 9:44 am

The treatment of Scientist I'm entirely with you on. But I read somewhere (yeah ... I'm stringent when it comes to sources :lol: ) that Scientist himself requested to have his name pulled from the releases as he isn't receiving any royalties from the albums. But if it is the case I can't see how VP would approach it without doing it this exact way. But this is of course speculation from my side on hearsay. I do not know if it's true. Hopefully someone knows more about this?

I had noted that several of the vocals were not the same ones as the dubs. This is from what I wrote over at PAMA:
Awesome sleeves! These are also 2×LP with the vocal counter parts to the dubs. It seems some of these vocal counter parts are later recordings. One with Triston Palmer was very noticeable due to the change of his voice. Other dub versions (such as Landing, Attack, Meteorite and Galaxy from the first volume) don't have the "correct" vocal according to the voice samples in the dub – they tend to be mostly missing Rod Taylor vocals (that would be a lovely release if the vocals are still available on any tapes) albeit one is obviously Peter Broggs.

But it seems that several of the vocals are unreleased material contemporary to the releases of the time (like the Ranking Dread tune) so I will definitely pick them up.

A dub reissue done really properly it looks like.


In regards to my closing sentence it obviously wasn't what it looked like to me. :D

Still I am curious about the vocals that might be original stuff (like the Ranking Dread). Anyone that could do a summary of what vocals that are unreleased and from the same era? Could be worth investing in them if those vocal cuts sound OK and aren't available anywhere else.
Image
User avatar
kalcidis
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:47 am
Location: sweden/stockholm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby itsmeagain » Wed May 30, 2018 10:01 pm

jb welda wrote:I got fooled into buying this piece of trash. Never again, VP, never again. They are in the process of wrecking the good name of Greensleeves with atrocious crap like this.

one love
jb

I agree. Utter ****.
Only two or three palatable tracks on the vocal CDs.
Remember VP **** up the pacman release by means of a stuttering track .
All this Linval presents is crap.
itsmeagain
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:11 pm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby daniel » Wed May 30, 2018 10:06 pm

itsmeagain wrote:
jb welda wrote:I got fooled into buying this piece of trash. Never again, VP, never again. They are in the process of wrecking the good name of Greensleeves with atrocious crap like this.

one love
jb

I agree. Utter ****.
Only two or three palatable tracks on the vocal CDs.
Remember VP **** up the pacman release by means of a stuttering track .
All this Linval presents is crap.


Thanks for the tips. I was going to pick both volumes up - I won't now.

Was there a problem with the ...meets pacman VP reissue too? Any other recent VP issues to steer clear of?
daniel
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:18 pm
Location: toronto

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby itsmeagain » Wed May 30, 2018 10:06 pm

jb welda wrote:well, first of all, like has been mentioned here, most of the "vocal" tracks, or at least many of them, do not correspond to the dub versions, that's strike one. Strike two would be that the ones that DO match the dub versions, are very easy to find elsewhere and not really worth going out of your way for especially when you probably already have most of them on original release. And strike three would be the seeming inability to master a bass note on their records...all you got to do is listen to the Auralux version of the dubs to be smacked upside the head with the difference. Added bonus: that Al Campbell track, or is it really Al Campbell, and what the heck is that all about, obviously no one took the time to listen to this before releasing it.

VP: miles behind in reggae music.

I would offer you my two sets (four LPs) for the cost of postage, but you can probably find them cheaper elsewhere and if you hold on a bit i am sure these sets will find their way to their rightful place in the discount bin soon, especially the CDs...the vinyl may hold some intrinsic value just from the medium if not for the content.

So i say ditch this crap and invest in some good Vivian Jones (Ethiopian Kings vocal and dub) or something like Blackman Time or that Tape Rolling set on pressure sounds. Those have some quality for your money. And some actual dynamic range.

one love
jb

Agree.
itsmeagain
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:11 pm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby itsmeagain » Wed May 30, 2018 10:13 pm

daniel wrote:
itsmeagain wrote:
jb welda wrote:I got fooled into buying this piece of trash. Never again, VP, never again. They are in the process of wrecking the good name of Greensleeves with atrocious crap like this.

one love
jb

I agree. Utter ****.
Only two or three palatable tracks on the vocal CDs.
Remember VP **** up the pacman release by means of a stuttering track .
All this Linval presents is crap.


Thanks for the tips. I was going to pick both volumes up - I won't now.

Was there a problem with the ...meets pacman VP reissue too? Any other recent VP issues to steer clear of?

Track 13 on the pacman album stutters and you have to play the next track it is absolutely terrible.
itsmeagain
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:11 pm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby drwatts53 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Anyone had problems with the vinyl of Linval Presents Space Invaders? (I've got the original Scientist CD.)
drwatts53
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:16 am

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby 99thfloor » Thu May 31, 2018 4:51 am

daniel wrote:
itsmeagain wrote:Remember VP **** up the pacman release by means of a stuttering track .

Was there a problem with the ...meets pacman VP reissue too?

The initial run was defective, it was later corrected.
99thfloor
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby skunkride » Thu May 31, 2018 8:34 am

Checking sound clips it seems that each release has 2 or 3 vocal cuts that are acapella tracks which were slapped on the original dub cut without any relation...probably the worse 'fake tracks' i've ever heard :roll:
skunkride
 
Posts: 6587
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: South side, Tel-Aviv

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby kalcidis » Thu May 31, 2018 1:03 pm

Quickly checked a few samples over at Boomkat. The Papa Tullo on Vol. 2 is definitely Johnny Ringo. When it comes to the Ranking Dread on Vol. 1 it sounds a bit familiar (albeit certainly not Ranking Dread) until I realised they probably just took a different Ringo vocal and slowed it down. Check this sped-up sample.
Image
User avatar
kalcidis
 
Posts: 3111
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:47 am
Location: sweden/stockholm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby Dave Home » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:11 am

I'm struggling to understand why there is so much negativity about VP/Greensleeves on the BAF forum. I've bought all the VP/Greensleeves Scientist reissues on CD and I think they're very good. They have great sound and are really well presented. VP/Greensleeves have obviously invested a lot of time and money putting them together. To say they are badly mastered is complete nonsense as they were mastered by Kevin Metcalfe who is one of the most respected engineers and has been mastering Reggae music for 40 years.
Dave Home
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:23 am

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby guillaumebougard » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:49 pm

Dave Home wrote:VP/Greensleeves have obviously invested a lot of time and money putting them together.


Dave, not really.
The tapes have been with Grensleeves since the early 80's and have been transferred to digital format some time ago too. So it takes about 15 seconds to put together a playlist, burn it to a thumb drive and upload it to Kevin's website for him to do a new mastering (if any)
Having said that, those are top dub albums.
Some members of this forum take issue with some flaws on vocals that spoil the product a bit. You would never hear of such problems with Pressure Sounds, Blood & Fire, and, I daresay, TABOU1 (the one flawed product was pulled from the shelves)...
_______________________________________________________________________
Guillaume Bougard
guillaume.bougard@gmail.com
http://www.tabou1records.wordpress.com
https://www.facebook.com/slyandrobbieofficial
guillaumebougard
 
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:28 pm

Re: Dub Landing 1 & 2 reissues with vocal tracks soon come

Postby jb welda » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:47 pm

Well Dave, if you like them then that is good for you. I guess VP is keeping somebody happy then.

But if you want to see a physical sample of why I am not quite so pleased do the following experiment:

Take an original greensleeves LP of your choice and digitize it. Then do the same with a current VP version of the same LP...preferably from LP but from cd is ok as they are probably mastered from the same master (another issue not really addressed in this thread).

Compare the two wav files. Notice the GS one has peaks and valleys, the peaks are high and the valleys are low. This indicates dynamic range, the difference between the softest and loudest sounds in the recording, and is what makes a recording sound "good" to most ears.

Now do the same with the VP version. What you will see resembles a brick, very few high and low points, pretty much all one big block of sound. This indicates lack of dynamic range, a lack of difference between the lowest and loudest sound. And it is the sign of a poorly mastered record. It typically indicates the source was compressed to bring the sounds closer together and make it easier to reproduce, then expanded out so the sounds are at a high volume level to give the recording supposed "punch". But actually its just LOUD..."punch" comes from hearing loud jump out from soft background and that only happens when there is sufficient dynamic range to have both soft and loud sounds on the same recording.

So even though Kevin Metcalf is a good and respected engineer there is something going on here beyond that, something unique to VP. And it has been consistent since they took over the GS catalogue and prior to that with other recordings. There is very little room for debate about if they "sound good" or not when faced with physical evidence like this. Well actually there is room for debate since "sound good" is an subjective thing...there is little room for debate about whether the recording has decent dynamic range, which for many is what makes something "sound good"

To my ears, they do not sound good at all, most all I have heard anyway, and the proof is in the sound files and wave forms.

Then there are all the other things like those vocals on the sets we are discussing here, along with other instances in the past where VP releases contained artifacts not present in the original recordings (cell phones anyone?).

So, in answer to your question, that's why.

As a side issue, the one Tabou1 recording pulled, might have been the taxi gang live release that i once pointed out had track breaks between songs, very distracting on a live recording. If that is so its a shame because that was otherwise a very good release...i remastered my copy to eliminate the breaks and its great, especially the half pint and ini kamoze tracks. So really that release deserved remastering and reissuing, but i guess that did not happen. At least papa G heard the complaint and responded to it...far more than we have come to expect from VP.

one love
jb
jb welda
 
Posts: 5143
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: caliweedonya

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Pads and 6 guests