No don't legalise it

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Dread Archive » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:11 am

Murdering Home Office - Little Billy & his mates needs their medical cannabis for their Epilepsy. I was the first to get a licence in the UK. Murdering Home Office.
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby jb welda » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:39 pm

>I work with people whose brains have been mashed permanently by cannabis.

and they get better performance evaluations and more regular raises in pay than you do?

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Like it or not there is another side to cannabis and alcohol. As you say it could be because of what they add to it nowadays or that some people can manage it better than others but we have accept that it is harmful to some people.
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby jb welda » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:40 pm

Life is harmful to many people; in fact its pretty much 100% deadly. Try to have a little fun while you can.

Its later than you think.

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby cry tuff » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:02 pm

Of course it should be legalised

Being harassed, searched, fined and even locked up is not going to help anyones mental health
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:12 am

The irony is that drugs are probably more available in prison than outside!
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:30 am

jb welda wrote:>I work with people whose brains have been mashed permanently by cannabis.

and they get better performance evaluations and more regular raises in pay than you do?

one love
jb


I have made light of serious subjects in the past but it's really not funny when someone you know and love is affected. Where people are seeing the impact everyday in their working lives I have to listen to their first hand experience.
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby jb welda » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:53 pm

Then deal with it yourself, don't make it everybodys business, and stop trying to change the world based on one little experience in your life. A layman's view of that experience, at that.

Whoever it is you are referring to has far deeper problems than smoking a little weed. Realize it and if you want to help them, help them, but going on some crusade here is not helping them one bit. Try some psychiatry. Figure out what the REAL problem is and deal with it. It is not smoking weed, that would be my bet. The herb is being scapegoated so this person does not have to face up to his or her real problems.

But we been over this before, and i think it is a 100% made up "problem", the person probably could not deal with life before this so called "psychosis" was diagnosed. You do realize that if "it" were legalized, there would probably be many more avenues to cures or relief than there are with it illegal?

And that crap about drugs being more available in prison than on the streets? Pure urban legend. Simple logic tells you it is not so. Smuggling something into prison to be available there is infinitely more difficult than finding it on the streets. But again, this is just a diversion from the real problem, throwing people in prison for using so called "drugs".

Again, enjoy yourself, its later than you think. Don't make me and millions of others have to live in a world where everything is dumbed down so it will not hurt the weakest, most vulnerable amongst us. Maybe that person should wear a helmet or not go outside unaccompanied. Try to think beyond your small circle of family and friends. Millions of people smoke herb with no ill effects whatsoever, and in fact with many beneficiary effects. That is what you are, in effect, fighting against with this sort of attitude.

That "chronic" story is just more government fabrication to demonize the herb. Unless they are spraying PCP or something on it, it is harmless to everyone but one in a million. And i refuse to listen to propaganda like that when it is obvious on its face that it is pure nonsense, just as i cannot support telling people to live their lives in a way restricts freedom to protect one in a million.

Let me put it in context:

I know someone who drinks himself unconscious every night and cannot get up to go to work the next day, making him and his family destitute. Solution? Ban all alcoholic beverages.

I know someone who got lung cancer after smoking tobacco all their lives. Solution? Ban all tobacco.

I know someone who is so fat they cannot get out of their own way and in fact, have a hard time crossing the street and have been hit by a person on a bicycle as they attempted to do so. Solution? Ban all food. And while you are at it, ban all bicycles.

I know someone who spends all his money on reggae music, leaving his wife and kids destitute. Solution? You guessed it, ban all reggae music.

I know someone who when they smoke a joint, kind of stares at the wall for a while. Solution? I will let you fill in the blank on this one.

See where I am going with this? Darwin was right and we have ignored his message for too long, with the consequence that society now thinks it needs to "protect" the most vulnerable amongst us by protecting us all from ourselves.

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:18 pm

It was from a recent story in the news about the rise in prison officers smuggling drugs into prison in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling I find irony amusing in a British sort of way.

I don't think I said I wanted to stop people doing anything. It's just that with all the reggae songs saying how beneficial weed is, I wanted to point out that it can also be harmful to some people. Yes there are often underlying issues, but I know a few people who seemed fine before smoking weed and are now changed permanently it seems, but I'm obviously not a doctor. Cannabis psychosis it a bit of a catch all phrase but they are displaying some of the symptoms. They seem so withdrawn now.

I don't smoke but I have an occasional drink and I discuss drinking, both the pleasure and the dangers, openly with my children. The potential dangers of weed also need to be discussed more and that's all I'm saying.

No controlling or offence intended.
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby jb welda » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:38 am

> The potential dangers of weed also need to be discussed more and that's all I'm saying.

That is entirely reasonable. But don't have them believe just anything they see in print or on tv or hear in the media. Teach them to use some judgement and that moderation is typically the key to happiness. Overdoing anything is a bad thing. But believing the devil lives behind every bush (no pun intended) is not a good way to be brought up, even if many in power may seem to think it is.

The thing is, when something is illegal, it is demonized, and rarely is a balanced argument put forth, particularly by those behind the illegalization of that something. In that situation, legalizing the thing generally leads to a better understanding of the dangers and the benefits, while keeping it illegal tends to have the opposite effect. Yes legalization may make it more available, but along with that comes a clearer understanding of the exact effects over time. Choices made based on evidence are always more valid than choices made based on rumors or lack of information. And choices made based on the reaction of one in a million are pretty much always way too overprotective of a society, and not protective enough of personal freedom to make choices based on our individual experiences. That is why I am pretty much opposed to laws made to "protect" people from their own impulses...it leads to a police state and overcrowded prisons, informer culture pitting one neighbor against another, and a society based on strict conformity to rules, rules which often have background biases, faulty information, and ulterior motives at their root.

Not that it really matters, but this comes from someone who has not smoked tobacco in twenty plus years (though I did smoke cigarettes for over twenty years), who rarely drinks alcohol, and does not indulge in any "drugs" (in my definition of the word) at all. I personally think the world would be way better off if alcohol and tobacco were made illegal, but I would never support legislation that made it so (I WOULD support legislation that made it less profitable to deal in such substances because to me that is the heart of the problem: the profit motive in pushing "legal" substances to society regardless of their obvious damage to that society). I value personal freedom over just about anything else, but of course there are justifiable limitations to that, and one has to recognize those to exist in a society. But those limitations should be very well justified in the sense they protect the vast majority, not just the one in a million and not simply 51% versus 49%.

By the way, thank you for your reasonable response.

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Novice » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:38 am

Ranks, don't know if you smoke(d) or not but some a lot of what you put forth reads similar to what is put forth by people who either don't smoke or have never smoked. I haven't smoked in almost 20 years but was a bit of a fiend when I was younger. I can safely say I've experienced a pretty good spectrum of both sides of the argument, stopping short at the psychosis part but that's most likely due to stopping well before that would have presented it's ugly head. I've been comfortable enough during the height of my smoking as to being BAFFLED the first time I heard the term "buzz kill," which if you are not familiar is a term used to indicate anything, person or thing or place that can act as a downer or bring you down from your high, because there quite literally was nothing that would "kill" my buzz, I was just far too comfortable in the state to be able to have it be disrupted. I also eventually became anxious, slightly paranoid and got to the point where it was more a matter of chasing away the seemingly hundreds of things that would not "kill" my buzz per se but make it absolutely tense to the point of not being worth it to smoke. A hazy state of mind a day after I had smoked one night was enough for me to see the writing on the wall and I stopped smoking, with no trouble.

I am not of the best psychological pedigree, too many land mines in my brain to mention, some work in my favor and some are quite detrimental. When you're young you have distractions in life and it's easier to not be aware of them or have your mental problems not effect you, or at least have them present as the usual adolescent symptoms. As you get older, issues that were not dealt with or that finally came to head creep up with more potency and affect. My smoking would be a good example of how a mental state can play a huge part, even with predisposed mental states. I went from being totally able to handle smoking, to the point of it not being much different than my sober state as far as what effect it had on me mentally to having it be able to control my mental state virtually against my will and control what/how I felt. During this time the weed didn't change, my mental state or which state was dominating changed. This was before the weed was so predominately very strong so it wasn't even a matter of the crazy potency issue. It was just me and my head. Now you can imagine with the weed being stronger, the example I gave for myself would be even more pronounced.

Bottom line, you have to look at this issue the same way you look at side effects for any medication that is prescribed by doctors. Some are serious and sound down right worse than the ailment it's meant to help but those side effects are all POTENTIAL and the truly serious ones usually have only effected a small percentage of the sample size. Weed is the same way, it just hasn't been able to be quantified or analyzed or reported properly because quite frankly it's illegal or was and the FDA or doctors or whatever have not been allowed to properly study it.

If they find a cure for cancer, and it turns out that cure can cause psychosis in the SAME percentage of people who suffer psychosis from weed, would you ban or not legalize the cancer cure? I realize this will be a case of the benefits out weighing the negatives but the same could be said of weed if you take for example those cases of those young children with those rare but horrible diseases that have been alleviated by the CBD or whatever in weed. To those parents it's well worth it and the benefit outweighs the negative.

I understand why/how you feel the way you do, probably more than you think I do but it's because I've been on both sides but I think you might need to consider the other side a little bit but I suspect your being more emotional than rational about this which is fine but would it yield any resolution for whatever it is this is making you feel.

-Me-
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:23 am

Thanks guys.

Despite the title of this thread, I haven't given an opinion on whether weed should remain illegal or be legalised. This is because I doubt it will ever be legalised or decriminalised in the UK with all the publicity about the potentially harmful effects.

I tried smoking cigarettes as a teenager and vomited all over our backyard just as my Mum was coming in from her evening job in a hospital. She went mad because of the mess I made and proceeded to beat me while I was still vomiting. Needless to say, I haven't smoked cigarettes since.

Years later I had a girlfriend who smoked weed so I decided to try some. I remember sitting on the edge of my bed listening to a dub LP and smoking the first spliff which had absolutely no effect on me. I then started to smoke another and I felt myself leave my body and slowly rise to the ceiling where I was looking down at myself still sitting on the bed. The experience scared me so much that I haven't touched it since.
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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby jb welda » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:02 pm

> I then started to smoke another and I felt myself leave my body and slowly rise to the ceiling where I was looking down at
>myself still sitting on the bed.

Pretty much the same experience I had upon first actually getting high, but it was in my friends pickup truck driving down the road. No I wasn't driving. It was the first potent weed I had smoked, fresh over from Vietnam by a soldier buddy of mine; the stuff I had tried two or three times before had no effect on me whatsoever.

>The experience scared me so much that I haven't touched it since.

Had the exact opposite effect on me. It was a revelation and I loved it.

As for decriminalization, I have a feeling things might loosen up once more and more stories come from places that have legalized it, the list of which is growing every day, and those stories increasingly point to the harmlessness of the substance. The myths will melt like butter gainst sun once that sun is directed on the subject. I think the UK will see it within the decade despite the lunacy I witnessed the last I visited. I was shocked (and scared) to hear there were police with weed detecting dogs roaming the underground looking for people with a spliff in their pocket. That kind of tactic is sheer facism if you ask me.

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Novice » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:11 pm

Interesting, for about the first week or two I smoked I didn't really feel the effects either, and it wasn't for lack of proper smoking or weed as my friends were all high. I got the munchies and laughed a bunch but I wasn't "high"and confused the hell out of my friend when I asked him what it feels like to be high and he just responded, somewhat baffled, that I had been smoking for two weeks and didn't I know?! Later on that night we went to a party and I finally got "high" proper. I didn't have the out of body as you two mentioned but there definitely was a dominating feeling of everything being surreal, everything seemed to just be out of sorts, not in a bad way but just really different than what sober reality felt like even though the things going on weren't particularly extraordinary.

I remember meeting this kid, friendly fellow, who happened to be a straight up white boy jock football player. And at one point he just busts out this pop 'n lock breakdance move and executed it very well and I remember my reaction was of total and utter shock/disbelief, practically dream like in how bizarre it seemed to me. I'm sure my preconceived notion about him played a great big part but even more ordinary things took on qualities for me that were highly entertaining to observe. It must be said though that I do enjoy observing ordinary things longer than your average person might deem worthy and weed helps that along in normal people let alone someone like me who particularly enjoyed it.

Incidentally, I can't imagine that weed playing terrific tricks on one's preconceived notions and ideas and having the ability to challenge them isn't a big part of why the powers that be might not want it legal. Good or bad it makes you think, especially during early use and I can imagine how that would put a damper on anyone trying to pull the wool over the eyes when people are thinking a little more loose and might not be so rigid with their ideas. But I take that with a grain a salt, a racist assh*le who smokes weed could also just be a racist assh*le who is now a high racist assh*le etc. etc.

I have had out of body sensations independent of weed and while sober though.

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Re: No don't legalise it

Postby Ranking Glasses » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:26 am

I don't like the feeling of losing control, or of my soul leaving my body with an out of body experience, but I am interested in how weed can make some people think more deeply. It's like "cannabis mindfulness". We can all do with taking some time out to ourselves just to think. Maybe the establishment is afraid of this because we might see how s**t life can be for many and demand change or isolate ourselves from it all. "...and if we should live up in the hills"
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