Samory I = new album

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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby 99thfloor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:15 am

adrians wall wrote:RE the dub mix on the 7", there is a 9 min dub straight dub mix called "Rasta Nuh Gangsta (Dub Mix)" It is not the "dropout mix" which is really a discomix with the vocal in it, this dub mix is just a straight dub of the riddim with very few vocals in it, just a few snippets at the the start.

Yes, this is what I have been trying to say a few times, maybe it is better to just list what's on the EP:
1. "Rasta Nuh Gangsta (Short Mix)" (5:04) - Samory I
2. "Rasta Nuh Gangsta (Dub Mix)" (9:17) - Samory I
3. "Rasta Nuh Gangsta (Dropout Mix 2)" (9:17) - Samory I
4. "War Inna Africa (Full Mix)" (9:17) - Odelyah
5. "War Inna Africa (Short Mix)" (4:50) - Odelyah

Leo5 wrote:...he tends to just change a few notes on an old riddim and call it new. "New name " anyone? Or should I say police in helicopter?

Both "New Name" and "Police In Helicopter" are just two chords, they're the same two chords, yes, but so are countless other Roots Reggae riddims, they are also close to the same tempo, how many completely new bass lines, that differ from everything that came before, can you create for those two chords at that tempo, and still have it sound like Roots Reggae? If I was presented with that chord structure and had to make up a bass line, what ever I decided to play it would inevitabely sound like some riddim of the past, wheather one I had heard or not. To "change a few notes" (or make something up that just happens to sound similar to something, it doesn't matter) is at least different from just basing songs on the same existing riddims all the time (which, I should point out, I don't have anything against either).
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby jahkob » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:09 am

Its a good album. I enjoy it. But as stated Im suprised alot of people take the rhythms as new as quite a few are recuts of oldies like Horace Andy´s Mamie Blue for one. I dont see nothing wrong with that though.
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby 99thfloor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:05 pm

My point (at least) was that it doesn't really matter if the riddims are recuts or not, it's the total end result that matters, and it's good in this case.
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby Reggie Love » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:43 am

From Twitter.

Rorystonelove‏ @rorystonelove

Finally the last stages of the vinyl double album Black Gold Samory I with dub and vocal said… https://www.instagram.com/p/BZhU89vAawV/
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby Dubba » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:46 pm

I was going to post this but you beat me to it Reggie! Looking forward to getting my hands on a copy, hopefully at a reasonable price :?
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby dj745 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:47 pm

Apparently preorders are being taken for the 390 copies of the double vinyl at £50 each via Rory's fb page for anyone interested
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby Dubba » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:45 pm

£50 seriously?!!!! As much as I want to own a copy, out of sheer principle no way am I stumping up that kind of money for a new release. Somebody please enlighten me if possible at how Rory thinks that price can be justified? I’ll make do with streaming the album from Apple Music as I have been doing since it’s release. I know it’s already been discussed in this thread but this is nothing but pure robbery and opportunism. When Samory I’s first single on Black Dub was released in 2015 it was retailing for £8 at Dub Vendor for the 7”. Fast forward a couple of years and an increase in his popularity and Rasta nuh gangsta is £20? Like I said this is Rory simply taking advantage of the popularity of the artist. Would he charge £50 for a Jah 9 album? I’m betting he wouldn’t as he knows nobody would cough up such an extortionate amount, sadly I think he’ll still probably sell out the 390 copies. I for one won’t be one of those 390. Disappointed and disgusted :(
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby TruthTown » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:00 pm

I wouldn't pay 20
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby jah_vaults » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:49 pm

Dubba wrote:£50 seriously?!!!! As much as I want to own a copy, out of sheer principle no way am I stumping up that kind of money for a new release. Somebody please enlighten me if possible at how Rory thinks that price can be justified? I’ll make do with streaming the album from Apple Music as I have been doing since it’s release. I know it’s already been discussed in this thread but this is nothing but pure robbery and opportunism. When Samory I’s first single on Black Dub was released in 2015 it was retailing for £8 at Dub Vendor for the 7”. Fast forward a couple of years and an increase in his popularity and Rasta nuh gangsta is £20? Like I said this is Rory simply taking advantage of the popularity of the artist. Would he charge £50 for a Jah 9 album? I’m betting he wouldn’t as he knows nobody would cough up such an extortionate amount, sadly I think he’ll still probably sell out the 390 copies. I for one won’t be one of those 390. Disappointed and disgusted :(


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CLICK THE LINK TO BUY more items NOW ADDED. Ska, Studio one, Rocksteady, Coxsone, Lee Perry, Treasure Isle, Dancehall, Digital, Dub, Roots Reggae & Ragga C.D.s & Vinyl http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/jah_vaults/m. ... 4340.l2562
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby lankou » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:18 pm

That's an interesting turn of event for the future of reggae on vinyl - for the worse, of course. Looking forward to see what will come out of it. Not much good for the artist, probably, but judging the silly prices certain new records go for these days, should't be too hard to find 390 "willing victims".
They could have at least provided a single vocal album at half the price. On a personal level, i could do without one more dub album.
That just shows how certain JA producers are unaware of the evolution of the "reggae market" but, by seeing certain prices don't discourage certan buyers, can he really be blamed for it all ? Or does he think with the equation reggae vinyl fan = rich foreigner???
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby Dubba » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:47 pm

Definitely think “rich foreigner” comes into the equation here. Like I said previously why are the costs for this release greater than other black dub releases? Same studio, same musicians, certainly same producer. Straight capitalising on the popularity of his artist. This probably sounds really petty but this whole business is affecting my view of the actual music which I know it shouldn’t but it’s so hard not to feel angry and indignant at Rory taking advantage of hard working reggae fans who have a far from infinite source of disposable income. I’m going to swerve any future Black Dub releases purely on principle. As much as I’ve enjoyed the samory I album it pales into insignificance to my “coming of age” period in the 90’s when landmark albums by Buju, Sizzla, Garnet, Luciano, Morgan Heritage etc were being released on a regular basis. Give me Bobby Digital, Fatis, Bello over Rory any day of the week. I also emailed him to say thanks but no thanks at that price. Hopefully I wasn’t alone in doing this and it might make him see sense. Think I’ve made my views on this pretty clear, not much more to say really! :D
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby riddleithat » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:01 pm

Dubba wrote:it pales into insignificance to my “coming of age” period in the 90’s when landmark albums by Buju, Sizzla, Garnet, Luciano, Morgan Heritage etc were being released on a regular basis. Give me Bobby Digital, Fatis, Bello...


I'm always 'rooting' for new/more Reggae music to purchase and enjoy but albums like this Samory I one aren't making me cut a check (in this case, a relatively big check)...

Even though some of the 90s material rehashed riddims - they came with a freshness and excitement for my tastes.. and plenty of the music/producers/artists Dubba loosely refers had several albums worth of tunes with interesting, new riddims, (& phrasing) that are still holding up over time. I feel this type of energy was still around up unto 2008, maybe 2010.... after that, I've become fairly bored with Reggae's more recent efforts.

Reggae, particularly from Jamaica, despite using the main formula, often had a way of presenting it's sound with a new twist... maybe it's just me but I'm not hearing that bit of twist that kept my attention/interest/buying finger snapping... And if things don't get extra interesting again, I'm fine with that, I'm just going to stop blaming myself for a lack of interest ha ha...
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby guillaumebougard » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Enough with the whining, for Chrissakes!

Point 1

Since none of the so called reggae fans that spend time on the forum buy a lot of new stuff, Rory and labels releasing new stuff know they need to look elsewhere for revenues. And the fact that 390 people will buy at 50 quids, my friends, is GOOD, not bad. It is good that someone is paying that money to buy the vinyl.

390 x 50 = 19,500. that will make Rory and the artist some BADLY needed money: judging on the production, it cost a ton of money to produce that album.

It doesn't matter if it's not you guys getting your hands on the vinyl, it doesn't matter if it's you or someone else. YOU are not entitled to anything. You deserve nothing unless you put some money or resources into it. Did you crowdfund? NO. First Rory didnt ask you, but second if he had would you participate? Probably not. So Rory owes YOU nothing at all and as far as I'm concerned, he can charge $500 for his record. That's his strategy.

How much new stuff are you buying? How many new Jah9, Ragung Fyah, Pentateuch, TABOU1, have you collectively bought in recent years? Very little and YOU are part of the problem. not Rory. Remember that. You don't support new reggae. Period. Don't care if it's good or bad, if it is green or red or blue, you just dont freaking BUY. So you can say whatever you want, it is irrelevant.

You wouldnt buy it if it was priced like other releases. I know, my releases are sometimes approaching the level of Samory's album, and priced more moderately, and yet they don't sell. So YOU guys don't buy, you dont support. And producers know this. Why should they cater to you knowing they'll get crapped on anyway??? There is always something wrong that prevent you people from buying new stuff.

Many of you happily spend that amount of money for so called collectors items 7" by obscure, often not so great, unknowns wailing about Jah and Babylon and herb and back to africa and ital sistas, but when it comes to actually supporting the few remaining producers that try and do something quality oriented, you people whine about the extorsion. Or something else

Point 2

If you're so unhappy about that state of affairs, launch your own label, find a talented artist, assemblew a great crew of musicians, engineers, etc... and sell at bargain prices.

Point 3

Spotify, Qobuz, Juno, Apple Music, etc...

Give money one way or another, for f@ck's sake, and stop bitching
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby Dubba » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:06 pm

Guillaume thanks for your impassioned response! I respect your opinions even though they don’t fully concur with mine. I can’t speak for others but I personally do try and support new releases and have bought stuff that you personally have produced including your Gregory and bitty releases. I also subscribe to Apple Music and as my posts in this thread suggest I do want to buy this release but am shocked at the price as are many others. Given the interest in this thread I think it’s quite evident that a lot of people around here are interested in new Music and so want to support it, admittedly not everyone! I also take on board your point about people paying stupid money for obscure tunes from decades ago which frankly aren’t all that great.

I didn’t give it any thought until reading back lankou’s post about only releasing the vocal part of the album for maybe half price. If Rory is releasing a full dub companion as well as the vocals then that doesn’t make things seem as preposterous in terms of pricing. Maybe a misunderstanding on my part and a presumption that it would be identical to the CD version? Thanks again for your input and all the time and effort you put into releasing new music, I do buy it, honestly! :wink:
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Re: Samory I = new album

Postby TruthTown » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:07 pm

Its OK if Rory wants to sell them at 50 pounds. Its his strategy: good luck!!. Personally I dont like the album so much and, OF COURSE, I wouldnt buy it for 50, 40, 30, 20...or 10 pounds!!!!!!

On the other hand, some examples of nowadays great productions that I rate & buy:

- Iroko/A Lone Showcases: great musicianship/production (around 18 euro)
- Reggae Archives / Sugar Shack records: they are releasing some new albums/works of clsasic Uk bands. Some of those LPs are nice and the prices are reasonable.
- Liquidator in Spain is releasing some marvelous Ska and Rocksteady music. The prices of these LPs are around 15 euro.
- In USA some stuff from Daptone records and a lot from Ticklah.
- In UK, Breadwinners, Twinkle Brothers, BDF, etc...Their records have NORMAL prices and arent envious of the Rory's works!!

...the list goes on. IMHO, Samory's album is not so good, its overated...Its just a hype!!! (and it has a lot do with the fact that its jamaican reggae!!! the usual cliché and prejudices again) OK for him if he takes advantage of this situation (I have nothing to do with that) but no one can say that its price is proportional to its quality, because there are a lot of examples of cheaper great (IMO much better) works.

And IMO this speculation is not good for the (reggae) music market.
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