Closed my EB account after 20+ years

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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:43 am

Daniel - what Ernie said was - because the record in question was on sale I should just accept that it is scratched & thank him for the bargain ! . He then went on to say that the wholesale record business doesn't include any refunds - He doesn't get refunds on damaged goods when he buys them wholesale & retailers don't get refunds when buying wholesale from EB's.

I only ordered the record because it was on sale, I had been looking at it for a while but could never afford it at the normal price.

Apparently my orders over the last 12 months have only made Ernie B's around US$12.00 profit!
This is probably due to him not stocking as much reggae as he used too & me not finding much there to buy. Although roughly 10 years back I was ordering hundreds of dollars worth of music every few months.

Mark T - I agree his customer service (replies to queries, packaging, prices) where second to none.
As in regards to me , I believe it's a combination of big increases in postal charges (out of EB's hands) a few years back, his decline over the last few years of stocking almost all reggae releases & the most recent - no refunds on damaged/faulty items if you are a wholesale account holder.

Some of the above reasons are totally out of Ernies control, but i'm simply not prepared to pay for any damaged goods from EB's or anybody else.
I am really grateful though, for all the great years we had together as customer/seller relationship & of course all the absolutely wonderful music I've received from him over the two plus decades.
I still have all of his invoices from all my orders from him over the years, boxes of them in fact!(until it was all done on the internet). One day I will add them all up as I'm curious to see just how much money I have spent there over the 20 + years :shock:

I honestly hope he has continued success in his business.

Thanks for all your comments guys & gals

cheers
j j
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby Leo5 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm

sounds like a really lame excuse from ernie to me. he has always cut corners especially with suppliers. This is why he can't stock a lot of stuff. he won't pay a decent price for it, and you have to chase him down for your small payment. furthermore, he doesn't want to pay for shipping to get the stock, and sends some ginal prepaid return labels (i'm sure contrary to UPS policy) for shipping stock to him. he was the wal-mart of reggae and it went kaput on him. good. now just waiting for the other opportunists in the biz to suffer the consequences of their own greed same way. brexit should speed that along.
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby jah_vaults » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:52 pm

Mark T wrote:I hardly buy a thing from Ernie these days because there isn't much I want. His prices are low and his service has always been exceptional. In some ways I think his prices are too low - it then becomes a model based on high volume which isn't what most of us do considering we buy for our collections. I was buying everything Pressure Sounds put out and always from Ernie then he stopped stocking.
I guess retailers can afford the odd bad record because they are buying and then reselling at a mark up of anywhere from 50-100% (based on what I have seen in shops). It's different when the purchase is for your own collection.
Costs of mail are becoming prohibitive from almost everywhere across an ocean - at least Brexit means there may be some bargains to be had in the UK.
Mark T


Good point Mark T . Ernie B prices are actually the lowest online but when it comes to the extra high international postage shipping cost the products are not worth the value.

Even some postal packages will not be delivered by mailing companies & buyers are told they MUST pay for taxes to have package delivered even though the value is very low & not taxable proves it is a very big scam.
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby Mark T » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:36 pm

Taxes and postal costs are part of the product price, people often forget this. If you have ever worked in a business, especially one that has to cross borders there are some large expenses involved which have to be passed on to the end user - there is no other choice. In both aviation and automation in Canada I have heard so often "I can get it cheaper in the USA'. You can, almost every time. But if you want it at your shop (house) there will be some costs involved.
Customers often bought their own product in the US and actually ended up paying more for it - but very few had the good grace to admit it. Some postal services are obviously more efficient than others. the German postal service seems to provide exceptional service at a very reasonable cost. I'm sure the Jamaican postal service is almost as good.
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby Ernie B » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:44 pm

On the surface the customer has a good point: it would be frustrating to buy without being able to return defects. Dig deeper on this particular customer's post however and you will find that after the truth is revealed and the exaggerations removed that we are being very reasonable.

1) Customer's wholesale account wasn't closed. There is no such thing as closing an account, customers are always free to order..they can always sign in and order if they want.

2) Customer claims he can't get a refund on defects. Not true. I told the customer he would need to pay our normal prices if he wanted to continue getting credit for items, due to the extremely high rate of credit requests from this customer. Similar to how a walk-in store bans you from returns if you keep bringing stuff back (except we weren't banning; we were asking him to create a regular account). Which brings up a new subject: there is no reason we should be giving any mail-order customer wholesale prices, indeed we are the only company I know who does. So saving 10%-40% of every order is a huge privilege and one shouldn't nitpick. In the long run even if 20% of your items were defective you'd still save money. And then there is a issue of how picky is a customer? Obviously an audible scratch isn't acceptable, but can one complain about every small mark on a record if it's not audible? I'm not saying this customer did that, but I am saying the volume of complaints was so high that we couldn't make a profit. Pretty simple math. I'm sure some of the records were unacceptable but the customer's threshold for quality is too high if he has a wholesale account and the rate is 100 times the average customer. How can we make money buying a record for $8, selling it for $10, and then frequently refunding the $10? Even the payment itself eats 10% of the profit right off the bat ($10 payment - PayPal fee of $0.20). Factor in the fact that at any given time we have 1,000+ items on sale at or below cost, plus gift cards.

3) It's not true that wholesale account don't get credit for defects. Our policy continues to be that all items are 100% guaranteed. In this case the customer's credit requests were about 1000 times the average. . For example, if you complain 5 times on 50 orders and our overall average is 1 out of a 1000 then that is 100 times more often. 50/5 = 10. 1000/1 = 1000 . 1000/10 = 100 times more often. It's not possible for us to make a profit at this rate no matter how much volume there is, if we are selling at wholesale prices.

4) Customer has offered to return items in the past but I didn't know he would pay shipping. I doubt that would last long; I wouldn't want to pay $12 to return a $14 record if I were a customer.

5) I refunded this customer on every request, including the most recent one, so I don't know why the customer would tell the world that we don't offer credit for defects on wholesale orders. I never said that. I said his volume of requests was too high, in fact in 23 years I can't even remember that last time I've had to ask a wholesale "mailorder" customer to create a normal account instead. Bottom line is, if we are doing you a huge favor by letting a "non record store" customer buy wholesale then you should probably not be our #1 most frequent complainer. I still want to give premium service and credit for defects to all wholesale customers, and we will. But if you complain so often to the point it's ridiculous and then you also vent in public then...then what? On top of that, we email gift cards out that reduce our prices even further...buying at wholesale prices and with a gift card on top of that.

As for the other post regarding how we treat suppliers. yes I agree payment has been slow all too often. It's hard to keep this going and sometimes payments aren't made on time. Not something I am proud of, but it's not from lack of effort. I'll continue to work hard to keep everyone happy and the music flowing. As for the comment about us using the UPS return system to get out of shipping, that is hard to follow. We use Fedex, not UPS. We mail pre-paid labels to vendors, so when they ship to us they just slap the label on the box (it's pre-addressed and ready to go). Then the charges simply show up on our account. That post was out there a little bit...I understand the bitterness because we beat down suppliers on price and then take forever to pay sometimes, I agree that is not good business. But claiming we're jacking the system somehow on shipping sounds like government chemicals in jet contrails to me. A further note on vendors..we've done our best to pay on time and will keep trying hard. It's not like we're getting rich on this and we're certainly not loafing it. It's a very tough business all around, and my guess is that most vendors would prefer late payments rather than us out of business. When we do get back to being able to pay on time every time I will be very happy, as those times are enjoyable for me either. I get your frustration though, I hate it when we are owed money. On the subject of paying late sometimes and beating down suppliers on price I admit guilt.

As for our website not being reggae-friendly as far as searches go, have you tried entering reggae in the genre filter? It will stay there until you change it, so only reggae will come up. In that respect it's just like a reggae site because that's all that will come up when searching, until you change the genre or remove it. If you have specific issues or ideas then please email me as I always pay attention to feedback, especially negative. I always want to improve.

Thanks for listening. Sorry we couldn't please this customer but we do have to eek out a profit.

Ernie

j j wrote:After 20+ years of ordering from Ernie B's I have decided to close my wholesale account.
The reason being is that if I buy using my wholesale account I will no longer be able to get a refund on faulty goods.
I hadn't realised this was the case until I recently received an order which contained original press vinyl, all of which was graded 'N-' which denotes a new or nearly new vinyl condition.

On receiving this order I found that 1 of the 12" records had a large visible scratch across the majority of the 'A' side. When playing this record you get a large sounding scratch through most of the vocal.

I offered to return this damaged record for a refund as usual but Ernie said no don't bother (as usual) & offered a refund (which I did receive).

Later Ernie informed me that he shouldn't be giving me a refund as the wholesale music business does not give refunds on faulty goods, not to his retail sellers who buy stock from him at wholesale prices, & also that when Ernie buys wholesale he isn't eligible for refunds on any items that are faulty.

This was news to me as previously it stated on the EB website that he did offer refunds on faulty products & I there was no mention of this not covering wholesale sales. (I had a quick look at his website & couldn't see this refund statement there anymore).

Over the decades I have spent thousands & thousands of dollars with EB's & to have this policy change over a US$14.00 refund seems a little over the top. I have always offered to return faulty items to him as proof that they are actually damaged or faulty & he has always declined my offer (I would pay the return postage also)

With the huge rise in US postal charges (which is no fault of EB's) it has become impossible to buy from him at retail prices (although this would mean I would be eligible for a wider returns/refund policy) so it is with a sad heart that my custom with EB's has come to an end.

So disappointed, but I guess the silver lining is with the Brexit the exchange rate for the GBP has lowered quite a bit for me, so hopefully I can source what I would have bought from EB's from UK companies now.

This is not a criticism of EB's btw, he's gotta do what he's gotta do to stay afloat I guess, but thought other customers with wholesale accounts should be made aware of this no refund policy as I don't feel it has been made very clear on the EB website.

Disappointed (as usual I hear some of you say)

cheers
j j
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:32 pm

Here we go

1.FACT - Customers wholesale account is closed, I closed it.

2.FACT - Customer said he got refund. Customer not responsible for EB's pricing.

3.FACT - Customer went on what EB told him in email. That wholesale customers won't get refund as no one else does in regards to wholesale sales .
If orders contain faulty product , customer has a right to complain, if several orders over several years contain faulty products customer will complain/notify seller several times.

4.FACT - Customer would pay shipping as seller has never asked for faulty product to be returned & never offered it.

5.FACT - Once again customer said he got refund
Customer only took up EB's offer of a wholesale account after getting loads of emails from EB's saying 'if you in any way promote reggae music,any way at all, you are entitled to a wholesale account". Before accepting this offer I created a reggae blog so I could truthfully say I was promoting reggae music.

6.Customer would be grateful if EB's could provide a list of my returns for the last 5 years, so we can all see the truth about what Ernie is saying. It won't be a very long list.

Nice to see you joining in the conversation Ernie & I hope I have cleared up the points you raised.

I stand by everything I have written on this matter & have emails to prove what I say is true.

I have never tried taking advantage of EB's return policies & have always offered to send back faulty/damaged goods as proof of this. I guess when you order so much music from the 1 supplier you are going to get more faults which means more complaints /refund requests.
I did explain that I only buy from EB's because of his wholesale prices & can't afford the retail cost but he doesn't seem to 'get' this..
Seems that he blames his loss of profits over the years on the very people who have kept him going for so long. Well for me that came to an end last week.
You can't offer customers wholesale prices & then moan when you don't make enough profits of off them. I don't set his prices for him & I think his low wholesale prices are coming back to bite him on his own behind.


I think I still have a good point.
Look forward to answering anybodies questions on this subject

cheers
j j

seems there are other EB customers who have left the fold in recent times as well, I wonder why?
Last edited by j j on Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:40 pm

I think this says a lot about where Ernie is coming from..... " so saving 10-40% on every order is a huge privilege & one shouldn't nitpick" - why would anyone want to get a 10-40% saving on a faulty product?
Why would I want to spend money on a faulty item at any price, especially if the item in question is sold as being NEW or NEARLY NEW?

Why is a valid complaint classed as nitpicking by EB's?


You have still wasted your money on an item that doesn't work, savings or no savings.

Ernie any chance you can provide the details of my returns over the last 5 years? I'd really be interested in some proof of what you are saying.

j j
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby jb welda » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:44 am

I think you should stop badgering him and if you don't like it, don't deal with it. He gave you straightforward answers and addressed your points. Dragging this out in public isn't going to look good for anyone. Its just going to be embarrassing when he backs up his chat with figures, which I have little doubt he could produce if he wanted to. Anyway, hope you work it out, I just suggest doing it in private.

one love
jb
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:09 am

JB i'm not badgering anyone, just responding to Ernies post & putting some of his points into reality. I have dealt with it - I've closed my account.
Also I'd love him to produce some numbers for my returns over the last 5 years, as I know this will be a small list as I have haven't been ordering from him like I used to in the good ol' days when I was placing orders for US$700, $800 every other order.

And once again it wouldn't matter who the seller is, if they sell something broken that they advertised was new then they should be prepared to reimburse or replace.

My original post was made to express my disappointment that after 20+ years I could no longer buy music from a company I had happily used for a long time.
I explained the reasons why.
I have only been honest & have not made thing up or exaggerated them as Ernie seems to think.
I was asked my reasons why & I explained them.
I still think there needs to be a clear warning (or at least a note) on the EB Records website - that Wholesale sales are not eligible for refunds as it's only recently that It has been made known to me in this round about way & it really needs to be upfront & out in the open.
Once again it was Ernie B's constant emails about opening a wholesale account that got me to do it. My buying has slowed drastically since then & now he's not making as much profit off me to make it worth while me having one.
Since my sales dropped this is the first time he's ever complained about refunding or even brought it up as an issue.

It's always been my choice to leave, I wasn't banned etc I just logged out & cancelled my EB emails - I ended my business with that company.



If anyone wants to pay shipping I will send you the scratched record that started this whole debate off.
I don't collect scratched damaged vinyl.
It's Sugar Minott - Too Much Backbiting - J&L 12" (the title seems quite apt)

Then anyone who feels that EB's is hard done by can donate it back to him so he can resell it & get his $2 profit or whatever he's after?
Whatever , I cannot afford to buy from him at retail prices.

JB I just remembered you've made your disappointment with EB's known ever since he diversified from reggae, you have posted about how this has made you feel & your thoughts on it - Is this also badgering Ernie B's?

I don't feel i'm dragging this issue on , I just respond to others posts & questions. It is a forum, where we have conversations , so I hope no one thinks I have some strange vendetta against EB's , as this is definitely not the case :)


one love

j j
Last edited by j j on Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:31 am

Here's a post from me


great haul there dubstar, I too have been picking through EB's original press & recently spent about $370 with him on og's so far :? . I think he has/had reduced prices on most of his og stock - maybe to make room for the other genres?

I also picked up some of your repress choices too. 8)

some of the recent EB's 12" og's I got:

Bobby Kalphat - My Time/Merciful Father - Love 12"
Pat Kelly - Soulful Love/ - Chanan Jah 12"
Pat Kelly Talk About Love/ - Chanan Jah 12
Ranking Dread - Wah We Do - Live & Love 12"
Rolands- Johnny Dollar - Masai 12"
Sugar Minott - Harbour Shark - Jah Guidance 12"

amazingly all in MINT condition :D

cheers
j j
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:47 am

its a long ways from reggae...

Postby jb welda » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:20 am

ernie b is now listing dreck like this:

Bobby BeauSoleil - The Lucifer Rising Suite (4 CD Box Set) Ajna

for the uninitiated, and not mentioned in Ernies review of this release, Bobby Beausoleil has been variously described as Charlie Mansons right hand man, one of his most devoted followers, or by his own words, he had his own cult of girls going on so he didn't need Manson, he was just curious of what he had. Regardless he was convicted of at least one murder attributed to the Manson family and currently I think he styles himself some kind of jailhouse preacher and God convert after narrowly avoiding the death penalty. his Dodge Power Wagon is still sitting abandoned in Ballarat, California, a ghost town near Death Valley where Charlie and company had their last stand in the Panamint mountains at the Barker Ranch.

what the heck is ernie thinking? his catalogue has been going to **** for some time now.

one love
jb


Re: its a long ways from reggae...

Postby j j » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:34 am

I'm guessing that Ernie takes the entire catalog of whichever label it is , so maybe that's why you get things like Bobby BeauSoliel on his website?

I still haven't come across another US website that offers as much reggae music in one place & that offers impeccable service 99% of the time as our Ernie B's.....& who else sends your orders in packages that could withstand being dropped from the Empire State building & still be fine on impact :wink:

EB's are no longer stocking Pressure Sounds 7" releases, which is strange as every other Reggae mail order co. seems to be?

Some non reggae releases I've found at EB's include,

Rockabilly Psychosis & the Garage Disease LP,
Best Of Link Ray LP, a lot of the non reggae Soul Jazz releases, a couple early Rockabilly compilations & several brilliant 7"s like

Jean Jaques Perrey - E.V.A ,
Dave Hamilton Orchestra - Who Are You Trying To Fool
Idris Muhammad - Express Yourself/Super Bad
Bobby Garrett - I Can't Get Away (my personal favourite)
Little Ann - Who Are You Trying To Fool
Sonics - The Witch
The Last Word - Sleepy Hollow

Several James Brown LP's , Honest Jon Soul LP's.......I hope EB's is doing well in this current vinyl explosion.

j j
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby jb welda » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:32 pm

I am not even going to respond further to your BS jj, you are just making yourself look like a little petulant teenybopper here. Easy solution: pay way more elsewhere. Like I said earlier, baby out with the bathwater.

jb
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:18 pm

BS huh - pot calling the kettle black.

one love
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby flashman » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:22 am

Sorry but this is too funny. With all due respect jj, and I do enjoy your posts at times, and you are clearly a dedicated music lover, but it is all to easy to believe that you would be EB's #1 complainer. :mrgreen:
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Re: Closed my EB account after 20+ years

Postby j j » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:04 am

flashman - it's certainly looking that way, but remember i'm only answering others posts so it's not just me carrying this on :D (but I do love to argue :D )

I admit this thread has gone crazy, but it's all in good fun on my side.
JB can be a cantankerous old fella, but I do enjoy his banter :D

On a serious note, I have no idea if I complain the most out of EB's customers? Maybe I do, but I only do it when something is amiss.
Maybe it's because I ordered more from him than others here?
But i'm happy if EB's wants to list my complaints. Honestly in the last 5 years there can't be that many :shock:

Thanks for reading & commenting on this thread, it will be interesting to see how long WE can keep it going.

cheers
j j

p.s i'm home alone for three weeks so this topic keeps me from getting lonely in the long cold dark evenings.
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