Blood & Fire on CD

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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby Dubster10 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:13 am

You're talking about major labels and pop stars but there are still loads of indie labels out there and Blood & Fire shouldn't be compared to EMI or Universal, it should be compared to something like Light In The Attic Records or Soundway.

If Andy Votel is able to keep Finders Keepers running with their compilations of weird Pakistani film music and Eastern European electro of which no one's ever heard of (I don't imagine FK makes much profit but they are passionate about their thing) then I don't see why it's so impossible for B & F.

18 pounds is too much for a music album? If it's a high quality product, I don't think so. When Soundway spend years digging through Africa and Latin America searching for rare old music and information about it, and then meticulously put together a complete package with great sound, detailed liner notes with old photographs and beautiful artwork, then I'd feel like an a**hole if I only paid a few Euros for all their hard work.
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby dom » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:16 pm

What you don't know is the finer details, not all labels pay advances, not all labels pay publishing at press or at all, some labels don't seek permission they just pay publishing when pressing, often with out any consent of producer or artist, just going straight to a publisher who has not contact with the producer or artists any more.

Some small labels do their own artwork, some small labels are funded by very wealthy people.

there's a very old saying "don't judge a book by it's cover"

BAF & Redhills Publishing set the bar, simple, VP can't even see the bar, never mind reach it, no one wants to reach the same bar as it costs lots of money to do it properly and keep producers, artists and original labels happy.

Steve Barrow, has very high standards when it comes to re issues, right down the quality of ink used by Intro when printing, most labels don't even understand the terminology used by printers, nor do some "designers" that you come across.
It does costs good money to sort a release out and thats without anyone even drawing wages, promo, marketing, distro fees, returns etc etc

it's not a simple business reggae, do you think that there's loads of money in it then think again, ask around, ask dub vendors, ask dub store, ask ernie, ask the sound men, small labels, current artists, the shops are the ones who have the greatest profit yet they have the biggest risk, high street rent, warehouse fees, online selling is the way to go but then you still need stock & an existing customer base

young jamaicans are not interested in coming in to the business, if they're educated and can afford to they educate themselves in N America and go in to professional careers, non Jamaicans have the wealth , knowledge & infrastructure to be able to set up labels, websites, festivals & tours to promote reggae and if it's good it will be successful but no one is becoming a millionaire from the scene!

Credit should be given to Contour music, Klaus Mack ( summer jam), Claude Nobs Montreux Jazz, who pushed reggae in the late 80's early 90's at big festivals and believed in it's potential as a strong genre to tour clubs and for large outdoor festivals and never gave up on reggae like people did in UK.
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby guillaumebougard » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:19 pm

+ 1, dom
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby guillaumebougard » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:38 pm

Congo Bunny wrote:It's hard to have sympathy for a record label or an artist who won't keep up with the current formats.


Nobody is asking for your sympathy. Your dollars, pounds and Euros or Yens are more useful, quite frankly!

Congo Bunny wrote:The music industry has killed itself by over pricing it's product for years everyone wants to be a millionaire


Dont think for one second that people like Steve, myself or other indie record labels founders ever wanted to be millionaires. We just wanted to showcase music that we personally find interesting and worth sharing with others who enjoy the same types of music we do. Or we like to go in a studio and create art.

Congo Bunny wrote:If I could make a living out of selling music I would consider myself the luckiest person alive, but so many people want to be a super star.


Please do go ahead and run a label if dont already. The World needs as many reggae labels as possible. Your tastes are surely different from other labels' owners and will reach different people. You dont have to do it as a full time job. Just go out there, hire musicians, singers, song writers if need be, engineers, book a studio, record, mix, master, put together some artwork, pay copyright societies for mechanicals, pay the pressing plant, do some promo, distribute the record, pay royalties. And start all over again! this is fun and fulfillng although sometimes one wants to cry!

Congo Bunny wrote:I can't see the difference between dwnloads and physical formats except that downloads must be cheaer to produce than physical products no packaging no transport no storage no stock, so surley there must be more profit in it


see how many digital copies you sell versus physical and tell me if your digital sales are generating more cash flow than physical sales. I dont know about your label if you have one, but physical sales for new product are generating more money. Maybe the margin per unit sold is smaller, but I'd rather sell 1000 with a margin of 10% than 100 with a margin of 50%. Just saying...

Congo Bunny wrote:I can't see the difference between streaming and radio


Revenues for artists, for labels, for writers and composers. Do your homework and check out how much streaming sites are paying per play, and for whom, you'll be amazed.

Congo Bunny wrote:Record lables have made so much money over the years I remember buying war in Babylon on CD and it cost me 18 pounds what a fricking rip off 18 pounds that was four hours wages for me at the time no CD is worth that


WIAB is one of Reggae's best records ever.
Scratch deserves every freaking cent of royalties on those 18 quids.
Ask yourself: why pay so much money when making so little??? The sacrifice you accepted to make was worth every cent, because you accessed finest of the finest in Reggae music. To access the finest of the finest in automobiles, you'd have to fork out 1 million bucks. So with 18 quids, you bought yourself a share in heaven which is better than a Rolls, right? Try and quantify how much joy it has provided you rather than whine how much you paid for this...
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby RB » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:54 pm

Congo Bunny - spoken like someone who has no idea about the economics of the record business (let alone reggae business).

Dubster10 - all the labels you mentioned are selling EXPONENTIALLY more than any reggae label.
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby Donovan » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:06 pm

Let's look at the big picture. The globalists have achieved their agenda - we are all wage slaves. They have us captured. Culture and the arts? An afterthought once you get past the 5 corporations that control the global media. If you want to make an artistic product, well, do it on your own time and hawk it on the internet just so you break even. But don't you dare not show up at 8:00 AM on Monday so that globocorp can pee-test you.

Just a thought to brighten your day. :?
"Touch them magically with the rod of melody, We will never let them go" Roy Shirley, Touch Them
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby dom » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:20 am

all good points!

doubt finders keepers sell in the 10's of thousands, Andy is an old pal and has a keen eye for design, he's done well with Badly Drawn Boy signing in his early days and will be happy to speak about the business if anyone ever asks him, it's like meeting a younger steve b or any other music obsessed nutter, he's not rolling in it, he works as at Stockport college tutoring art. His passion is infectious like all real enthusiasts and he's realistic.

in fact he loves I Roy and BAF.

He got slated by someone once who accused him of stealing the heart of the congos design idea for a badly drawn boy lp, as it happens he'd never seen the sleeve and he came up with it with himself with out ever seeing the intro design.

re the point on radio vs streaming

streaming is pittyfull

radio pays well, especially if the audience is big like rodigan or don letts, bbc6 & 1xtra all play king spinna stuff , alan breadwinner says his prs payments show rodigan as the best earner for him everytime he plays his music.

we need more jamaican reggae in my opinion, there's a good few bands coming through but as yet no major hits like jnr gong or shaggy et al

the new bands are savvy and will not sign with any label, they would rather tour and sell downloads only via johnny wonder, don't blame them for it either, the label model is outdated and yes labels have taken too much from artists sales, now there's no need for that model, there's less shops anyway to stock anything.

from my experiences if you are on the road with a good show you will sell lots of merch, be it lp, cd, cassette , tee shirts, posters, books, dvd's, as the fans that are under your nose have cash in their pocket and want to take home something that is real.

buy vinyl

bring back the roots

support your local sound system

spread the word on the music you love, facebook & twitter is powerful and works...

downloads are coming to Facebook & a personal shop page so it will change again soon

spotify will die off, watch.

keep music out of the cloud and on the ground, on shelves, in boxes, show it your friends, children, family, they will love it, play it to them, they will love you even more.
cloud based storage for music will not be a happy memory for anyone ever, or a pleasure to use, the dodgy side of clouds has yet to be revealed but just stay out of it!
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby guillaumebougard » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:26 am

yes dom
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby dom » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:32 am

cheers guillaume, by the way, would love to chat about breadwinners mixes of your catalogue.

I'm into the idea of a series of 12"s mixed by Alan with your productions.

Maybe release the Gregory Isaacs Poor Man In Love?

He did a mix for me for DJ'ing, killer!
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby finbar » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:46 pm

Hey Dom

I hope all is well. Are their plans for VP to maintain the B&F board, or is it going to be one of the casualties of the arrangement?

Cheers,
Dave K
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby dom » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:33 pm

At this point I have no idea!
I'll be pushing for its existence though!
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby guillaumebougard » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:54 pm

dom wrote:cheers guillaume, by the way, would love to chat about breadwinners mixes of your catalogue.

I'm into the idea of a series of 12"s mixed by Alan with your productions.

Maybe release the Gregory Isaacs Poor Man In Love?

He did a mix for me for DJ'ing, killer!


email me at gbougard@gmail.com

I think I found your email address in my mailbox. I just sent you a message. Check to see if you got it from me.
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby Congo Bunny » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:02 pm

RB wrote:Congo Bunny - spoken like someone who has no idea about the economics of the record business (let alone reggae business).

Dubster10 - all the labels you mentioned are selling EXPONENTIALLY more than any reggae label.


Spoken like someone who know nothing about me

The wonderful arrogance of labels is that they blame their customers when they fail at business, the record industry has manufactured its own downfall and now blames people like me who spend thousands of pounds a year on buying reggae.

VP is widely slated on various forums and yet they are the ones that are buying up all the companies from people who continue tofailed at business what a joke those who have failed slagging off those who have succeeded

I'm not saying that small indie labels don't deserve respect and are not all operating at a loss

If you think 18 quid is fair for a CD then you must have a lot more money than me

Those that can't keep up with the modem way of doing business will fail and those that can will prosper and that is fine by me, there are so many hundreds of whiney business owners who think they are entitled and don't have a clue how to run a business, and I couldn't care less if they all go out of business

i will continue to spend almost all of my spare cash on the cheapest format of reggae that is released by anyone who is willing to deal with the whole screwed up world of reggae where the real people who deserve the money hardly ever get it

If you release it and it's reggae I will buy it, if you can't stay in business that's your problem not mine
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby dom » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:45 am

dear me..

do you know what chapter 11 is?

do you know what it costs to originate a release properly on a label like baf?

do you know what it costs to get contracts drawn up?

do you know what it costs to restore old vinyl at cedar?

do you know what a glass master, laquer , numatic, tape baking , transfers costs are like?

mastering / cutting?

do you know how distro works?

do you know what sor is?

have you tried to get old rare reggae releases into the mainstream?

it's thanks to mick hucknall's good will & capital investment that all this was possible to the highest of standards on baf, our business failed for many reasons, not just market changes or bad management but for lots of reasons, some totally inevitable when playing the long term strategy...

VP want to buy up what they can as they don't own any classic recordings, less publishing, that's why they took over greensleeves from zest who failed to understand the jamaican music business and it's inner workings.
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Re: Blood & Fire on CD

Postby asher selector » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:04 am

dom wrote:Credit should be given to Contour music, Klaus Mack ( summer jam), Claude Nobs Montreux Jazz, who pushed reggae in the late 80's early 90's at big festivals and believed in it's potential as a strong genre to tour clubs and for large outdoor festivals and never gave up on reggae like people did in UK.


Big UP Dom & All ...

@ Montreux Jazz Festival For 10 year's with My Brother We Was The One who PROGRAME All the Reggae Acts ... A REGGAE NIGHT With RootsMan ( RootsMan was my Muzikal Label of the 90's) ... Yes Nuff Nuff REGGAE Artists pass trough MONTREUX JAZZ FESTIVAL Reggae Night ... Artists From Jamaica , Yvory Cost , Japan , Chile , Germany , Argentina and Many more Places ... BIG TIME BIG MEMORIES ...

Iriie UP ...
Reggae Muzik More www.raspectshop.com Irie ...
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