HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Talk to your hearts content.....but keep it sweet! No record sales, live events listings or ebay labba labba.

Moderator: B&F Moderator

Postby Roman » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:53 pm

t-woc wrote:
Axis wrote:Computers are good at maths, but are rubbish at 'feelings'.


COMPUTERS HAVE FEELINGS TOO


Every material creature has feelings. Most people just don't know about it.
User avatar
Roman
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Solar System

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby SelectahT » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:11 pm

The most popular instruments in 80's Digital are probably the Oberheim DX drum machine, Yamaha CS01 (Bass) and Yamaha DX100 (Keyboards). These were the main instruments used by Steelie & Cleavie for Jammys and Redman productions.
Apart from those more popular instruments there are plenty others for example the famous Sleng Teng riddim was created using the Casiotone MT-40, what many people don't know is that the Wayne Smith tracks 'E20' and 'Walk Like Granny' were created using a Casiotone MT-65 (or MT-68, doesn't matter which one you use)
For early Jammys digi productions such as The Sleng Teng LP from Wayne Smith, a Casio CZ-101 keyboard was used.
Tunes like So Them Come So Them Go by Nitty Gritty or Crucial Boy by Prince Junior have the drums from a Roland TR-606 Drumatix.
The Bass in Hopeton Lindo's Territory was a Yamaha SHS-10.
Early Fatis productions used a Linn Drum for drums.
With the huge variety of instruments used in Digital Reggae,you can obviously see that people used what they had and that's what it's all about, make something great with what you got!
SelectahT
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:50 pm

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby Roman » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:56 pm

SelectahT wrote:Hopeton Lindo "Territory"


Wicked tune
User avatar
Roman
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Solar System

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby Roman » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:58 pm

One of the best threads on this board.
User avatar
Roman
 
Posts: 1982
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Solar System

Re:

Postby Anbessa » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:27 am

DC wrote:For instance drum programming. I've heard many programmed drums where you can hear a hihat in 16th going on while there's a big drumroll goin as well. A drummer won't program that as he knows it's physically impossible on a drumkit. As also the feel in velocity.


Jamaican trumpeter Everol Wray told me exactly the same about horns played on a keyboard. He said that he could immediately hear if the person playing the keys could play a wind instrument or not, according to the gaps left between two lines, for a human musician needs to take his breath sometimes...

A very interresting thread for sure !
www.soulofanbessa.com
Anbessa
 
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:26 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby djmush1 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:49 am

Greetings,

Just want to say that I love this thread - my fav. ever on B&F. I couldn't find it for >1yr, glad it has re-appeared. Between Dougie & Junior dropping the science, you now have everything you pretty much need to know to clash Jammy$ in a riddum clash lol ! To everyone else that is trying to dis them, good luck in making a "song" that basically sounds like a digital metronome.

......&........if you want to see how this is really done, buy your >30 days in advance plane tickets now to NYC when African Love plays longside Sir Tommys by my spot, & yes you will hear Al Paragus original music & artists longside them boom shot - - - >

Image
djmush1
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:55 pm
Location: Flatbush

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby BOST&BIM » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:15 pm

very interesting indeed! Thanks for the experienced producers here to share their knowledge..

My first point of view, while reading theses lines is - as usual - "music have NO RULES!"

for example, obviously if you want a programation drum "sounds like" a real drumer you better stop the hihat when rolls come..ok..but why a programed drum SHOULD sound like a real one??

if the program allows things that were not possible live that's just one more musician choice available (it's not much harder to stop the hihat on the programmation)

and if you really want it sounds like "real" why not use a ...real one

a next thing i just want to remember some people discussing the classical "machine versus music" issue: you can hear a drumbox all along one of the most famous tune of the "before computer" times : "no woman no cry"' by bob Marley & The wailers...

Now i totally agree that the "experience" is everything in music producing, not the tools, steevie, cleevie or jammy or any big producer would KNOW himself wich tracks/instrument/song/style he can play whith each tool , and if he can do something quickly with a machine because he KNOWS it will sound the way he wants for what he needs, he will do it with no "moral" vision as some people here...
and when for a next song he need a real musician playin a real instrument in a real studio with tapes for example,he knows too (in another hand no producer will pay a musician/studio/.. for something he could do THE SAME alone with a machine)

that's all about producer work!!!

so that the opening question of the thread sound to me like "is there a program to build a whole house alone with no other tools..??"

(ps: sorry for my english..)
BOST&BIM
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 9:47 pm

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby CHRIS RIDDIM » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:01 pm

BOST&BIM wrote:very interesting indeed! Thanks for the experienced producers here to share their knowledge..

My first point of view, while reading theses lines is - as usual - "music have NO RULES!"

for example, obviously if you want a programation drum "sounds like" a real drumer you better stop the hihat when rolls come..ok..but why a programed drum SHOULD sound like a real one??


It is not really important that the hi hat stops when a drum roll happens. I see no reason to make a drumbeat do as a drummer would UNLESS I intend to eventually play that song with a full live band, which is most of the time for me.
The main benefit of cutting a hi hat in a 'digital' drumtrack is that it provides much needed VARIETY for the ears, I contend that the hi hat cuts don't HAVE to be where a roll occurs (but it will sound more 'authentic'), but the variation is what make it richer texturally. like a meal with many subtle flavours blended.

One must wrestle the two opposing forces of HABIT and NOVELTY. these two are like 'yin and yang' and have been at each others throats for eternity. DUB is undoubtedly a craft that uses HABIT and NOVELTY as tools in either hand with which to 'sculpt' a bespoke (novelty) creation, within a genre (habit), thus retaining the habit/novelty balance.

I used to record a yamaha ry30 (which I believe Dougie and Prince Chasbo have used a lot) through my peavey guitar amp as it had a nice reverb and it gave them a grainy texture that mediated the 'synthy synthy' aftertaste left by the progarmmed drums. Also a great trick that Jah Rej told me he heard lee perry using, fill the high end of the frequency spectrum with busy shakers, guiro, cabasa, tambourine , stuff that 'distracts' the ear away from the monotony and regularity of the high hat. If using tape this also helps cover the unavoidable 'tape hiss'

I tend to like instrument sounds over 'synthy' sounds and after many years have found that a piano and some good effects can create all the rich and dynamic textures I would want from a synth. (check 'echoes' by pink floyd, those high single piano notes played through a hammond organ's 'rotary' speaker cabinet that literally spun the spakers to get the swirl effect)
I LOVE the new NORD keyboards, they have done a deal with 'MELLOTRON' and have 'sampled' all the old tapes from the old mellotron keyboards. Who needs synths when you can play sounds of 'bass clarinets', 'bassons' and 'wine glasses' recorded on tape in 1963?
CHRIS RIDDIM
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:56 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby FitZ » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:25 pm

A good friend of mine (drummer in his job) told me yesterday when listening to Black Uhuru that Sly dunbar is known to use a lot of drum channels (multiple alternate recs) and reworked the mix with prince jammy to play the proper drumbeat&rolls...which is usually things no drummer can play live without a third arm...i got to confess it never hurt me that the drum was not "playable"...
Gangunguru Hi-Fi since 1998
FitZ
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:17 pm
Location: Down Deh

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby Chocolate Soldier » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:39 pm

I find this rather far-fetched & looking back on things through the lens of a modern 'protools' mix trickery / limitless channel & editing perspective.

I would think that the more accurate story would be that the basic tracks for most BU material were laid down by the studio 'band' in one go with the drums submixed to a few channels. Note that Channel One studio was 16 track and King Tubby's was 4 track - where would you fit all the extra drum 'takes'?

Having multiple drum takes on a song & imaging Sly and Jammy sitting at the desk mute switches to 'comp' a drum take seems highly unlikely to me, as does editing the tape with a razor blade to make one master take out of multiple passes of the tune (an old school trick on bed tracks back in the day) - especially seeing as the JA crew had technical problems making the most basic of edits: extended mix vocal/dub edits.

What you do hear on some of the BU tracks is overdubbed electronic drums like syndrums...

Basically Sly is one of the World's greatest drummers ever & in those days of the late 70's & early 80's he was in his prime. Apparently when he first start getting popular as a drummer the listening public had trouble believing he played some of the patterns he did without some kind of studio trickery - apparently this notion hasn't died out (!)...

Fwiw - Sly really is that skilled to play those patterns & fills (syndrum overdubs notwithstanding) in one go without trickery & a 3rd arm!
Chocolate Soldier
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby FitZ » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:44 pm

Yes Choco, what I mean is that syndrum & stuff is played over , not in the 1st drum take which result in a big drum feeling in the mix
Gangunguru Hi-Fi since 1998
FitZ
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:17 pm
Location: Down Deh

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby Chocolate Soldier » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:50 pm

Sly & his overdubbed electronic drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWEGXb2juvM

Acoustic drums would have gone down , the tape rewinded & out came the electronic drum pads..


Classic pic of Sly with his array of electronic drum pads to the left & right

Image
Chocolate Soldier
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby MightyZion » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:33 pm

Greetings One and All!

Hello everybody, this is my welcome post to all, as I joined today the B&F board.
I am happy, as I can join all of you Reggae/Dub lovers.
I am happy either, as the topic is great, as many of you mentioned already.

Just, to join my humble voice in to the discussion...

I think no one yet marked the significance of the outboard gear to which all of those legendary machines were connected to. I believe that even the poorest sounding Casio or Yamaha, let through some Universal Audio, Amek, SSL or Neve etc compressor/equalizer/mixing desk, would have its new face and get strength which is not "originally" in some 8 bit "old school", cheap piece of hardware. IMHO this is one of the secrets of the Old Powerful sounds, that we enjoy. Unfortunately even, if you can afford Yamaha, Casio or any other old school synth or drum machine, those bricks are bloody expensive especially the old ones with years of sound through.

Once again Greetings to All of you!

Blessed Regards

P
MightyZion
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: London

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby Chocolate Soldier » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:52 pm

Prince Jammy studio in the classic 'digital' era - home to countless hits.

No $$ pro-audio equipment here:

Image
Chocolate Soldier
 
Posts: 5796
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:24 pm
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: HOW TO PRODUCE OLD SKOOL TUNES? (vintage style)

Postby MightyZion » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:19 pm

Yes, Chocolate Soldier. I don't know the gera list of Prince Jammy studio, but I know, that some of the pieces of equipment from this time are still in price, I am sure that even channel strip from his mixing desk is a piece of electronics worth attention, with design solutions and quality of work unusual in today's budget studios.
Anyway, in those times, companies like UA, Neve, Amek, were putting out some gear which with no big changes in design still sales at the good price. I don't know, if at the time this equipment was expansive, I suppose it was, but I don't know, how high was the price relatively in those times.

P
MightyZion
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:31 pm
Location: London

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 18 guests